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Some Thoughts on Dave Nonis

And, for the people who advocate firing Randy before the season starts, once again I'll ask, if the plan was Babcock this year all along, what choice was there really?
 
Wayward DP said:
A different coach would not have "saved" this season. That much is clear.

And, for the long-term health of this franchise, a season like this was probably actually necessary.
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This. The last thing this team needed was someone to come in and rush changes.
 
number17 said:
And he came to the same conclusion many, many fans here knew from day 1 ... wasting a season in the process.
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Sure, but those fans had intimate knowledge of the team, and watched every game for years.

Shanny didn't. And I don't think any GM should be making plans based on fan opinion.
 
Shanahan may not have seen as much of this team as we have, but I do hear whispers in scientific circles that we're getting close to inventing a device that would allow us to actually record & store live video, and re-watch it whenever we feel like it. It's a pity this technology wasn't around when Shanahan was first hired, but when it's invented, it'll hopefully prevent a situation like this season from happening again in the future.

As for Carlyle being "maybe the first ever coach to get fired due to advanced stats", I think that's over-stating the case a bit. You don't need advanced stats to tell you that you should consider making a coaching change when the team's been consistently giving up 40+ shots per game for a year and a half.
 
LeafGm said:
Shanahan may not have seen as much of this team as we have, but I do hear whispers in scientific circles that we're getting close to inventing a device that would allow us to actually record & store live video, and re-watch it whenever we feel like it. It's a pity this technology wasn't around when Shanahan was first hired, but when it's invented, it'll hopefully prevent a situation like this season from happening again in the future.
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So you honestly think the best thing for this organization was for Shanny to lock himself in a room with Nonis, Poulin and Loiselle, and watch a bunch of film then blow it up with those guys advising him based on the tape? As Dubas said "eyes are lying sons of bitches."

Sorry, but I'll take the prudent, patient approach 10 times out of 10.

The Leafs are set up for much better success doing that a year later, with all the improvements to the front office, and a years worth of first hand data, including that from an advanced stats department, than they were last offseason.

As for Carlyle being "maybe the first ever coach to get fired due to advanced stats", I think that's over-stating the case a bit. You don't need advanced stats to tell you that you should consider making a coaching change when the team's been consistently giving up 40+ shots per game for a year and a half.
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Yeah, but they were in the playoffs. Teams in the playoffs at the 30ish game mark don't usually fire their coaches. You can criticize that all you want, but I am a fan. They overlooked the traditional success (wins/losses) and fired him based on additional information that the organization didn't even track a year earlier.
 
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Wayward DP said:
And, for the people who advocate firing Randy before the season starts, once again I'll ask, if the plan was Babcock this year all along, what choice was there really?
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We don't know for sure that the plan was Babcock, nor do we know if he even wants to come here. Randy should have been fired in the summer, regardless.
 
the leafs set a record for shots allowed last year. a record.

of course he should have been fired.
 
zeke said:
the leafs set a record for shots allowed last year. a record.

of course he should have been fired.
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If Shanny's plan all along was to wait for Babcock to be a FA, and bring him in, how can they fire Carlyle and hire a new coach for just a season?
 
Wayward DP said:
If Shanny's plan all along was to wait for Babcock to be a FA, and bring him in, how can they fire Carlyle and hire a new coach for just a season?
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In most cases I agree, but in this case 1) Randy really did earn a pink slip 2) We had (have) no clue if we're going to get Babcock. You wouldn't really be hiring the guy for a year, you'd be hiring him for a job right up until the best in his profession in the world becomes available. I don't see the problem with that.

Especially if it was someone like Horacek. The guy should have just been happy for the full season opportunity...I mean, surely giving him this club mid stream has ****ered his chances at a better gig any time in the near future, and we did it without having him on a fat head coaches 2 year contract. The guy who you're worried about being "hurt" in that scenario, has been hurt far worse in the one that has actually happened.
 
So Carlyle had this team in the playoff picture, how good of a coach was he? Compared to Horacek, I think we all know. But this team they are icing is horrible.
 
It's hard to judge Horacek when he has to come in mid season to try to turn a run and gun team into something remotely defensively responsible within a few months. You don't erase a few years of shitty Carlyle system in 2 months.

With that said, Horacek's record speaks for itself as well, and did prior to taking over in Toronto. He's not much of a head coach either.
 
Horachek is in many ways a sacrificial lamb. I just hope for his sake this shitshow doesn't affect his future career opportunities too negatively. With that said, I'm not sure he has a future as a head coach at the NHL level.
 
MindzEye said:
It's hard to judge Horacek when he has to come in mid season to try to turn a run and gun team into something remotely defensively responsible within a few months. You don't erase a few years of shitty Carlyle system in 2 months.

With that said, Horacek's record speaks for itself as well, and did prior to taking over in Toronto. He's not much of a head coach either.
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I feel for Horacheck, he took over a team filled with selfish one dimensional players and the team already in a tailspin, the odds when he took on the job were stacked heavily against him. Yes the record since he's taken over has been horrid but I admire how he's not giving in, he's always preaching accountability with this club and he's trying to set a defensive first system as well... I can't really fault him for how this season has turned out to be honest.
 
blacksheep said:
Even Ron Wilson would, at this point. The correct answer is: no GOOD coaches who could get a job anywhere would.
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Eh... I'm not so sure about him taking on a job with the Leafs. He went on record saying he hated them and cheered for them to lose, not sure what would motivate him to come back.
 
Blueman said:
So Carlyle had this team in the playoff picture, how good of a coach was he? Compared to Horacek, I think we all know. But this team they are icing is horrible.
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The team Carlyle had in a playoff picture was clearly missing some key players. We all knew that. A top line C; a top D; a true starter goalie.... key openings. To some degree, any team in this league is going to have holes in their lineup that need filling. But the difference between Carlyle and say, Pat Quinn, is that the team won't get to within ten minutes of a second round birth only to bow out with a bang under Quinn. It's not all on Carlyle, but he certainly played his part.
 
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