CMD has a 1.42 PPG career, big advantage
Tank Nation Thread
- Thread starter Elliotlaker
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Lol... that doesn't really address what I said.
I wasn't saying that Matthews was better. Just that 40/70 was a made up description.
I wasn't saying that Matthews was better. Just that 40/70 was a made up description.
GGpX
Well-known member
There's only one player on the ice who can largely affect games on their own, and we've had front-row seats to it for a while here with Halak & Price. You could even go further back than those two if you want.
Raymond Bourque, who is amongst the elite of the elite of all time defensemen, saw his teams eliminated 9 times in the first round in his twenty years in Bawstun. Yzerman, who you brought up, was a player that was almost got traded out of Detroit because of his failures, which magically evaporated overnight when he had an assembly of HHOFers surrounding him.
Unfortunately for McDavid, he got drafted into one of the worst franchises in the league. Management there has gone out of their way to make it nigh-impossible for him to succeed; it's a 2 man team. Crosby's been fortunate enough to have a great surrounding cast most of his career, although The Choking Dog robbed him of one or two Cups.
I fully expect Toronto & Deadmonton to be first round fodder (unless Deadmonton plays Las Vegas, they have a shot), but it's got nothing to do with how McDavid & Matthews play. They're both on teams that don't have a really good defense and their goaltenders are going to falter. I'm not sure how either of them can fix that.
Raymond Bourque, who is amongst the elite of the elite of all time defensemen, saw his teams eliminated 9 times in the first round in his twenty years in Bawstun. Yzerman, who you brought up, was a player that was almost got traded out of Detroit because of his failures, which magically evaporated overnight when he had an assembly of HHOFers surrounding him.
Unfortunately for McDavid, he got drafted into one of the worst franchises in the league. Management there has gone out of their way to make it nigh-impossible for him to succeed; it's a 2 man team. Crosby's been fortunate enough to have a great surrounding cast most of his career, although The Choking Dog robbed him of one or two Cups.
I fully expect Toronto & Deadmonton to be first round fodder (unless Deadmonton plays Las Vegas, they have a shot), but it's got nothing to do with how McDavid & Matthews play. They're both on teams that don't have a really good defense and their goaltenders are going to falter. I'm not sure how either of them can fix that.
Good post , however you should expect 34 or 97 to at least be close to their expected production in the playoffs
Toronto is a better balanced team than EDM but 34 has to produce more in the playoffs , last few playoffs are unacceptable given the favorable matchups and his talent
Agreed the goalie is the only one player that can carry a franchise on his back for a series
east coast
Well-known member
Both have to raise their games, and that of those around them, in the playoffs. Until then, they irrelevant really. Yes, they may need stronger supporting casts to go all the way, but its not like they are currently completely alone. At this stage they still need to go further..
We are all saying the same thing I think, to different degrees.
We are all saying the same thing I think, to different degrees.
east coast
Well-known member
Bourque's Bruins (a couple of finals) and Yzerman's pre-Cup Red Wings (from nothing to a western finalist and then finalist) actually accomplished quite a bit in the playoffs during the first half of those two players' careers in comparison to what we've gotten out of Matthews's Leafs and McDavid's Oilers so far. And yes, they generally likely had stronger supporting casts, but still....
GrandWazoo
Well-known member
You can add Mario Lemieux who only won one playoff series (and actually only made the playoffs once) in his first 6 seasons.
True , but got nearly 2 points per game in his first playoff
Even Yzerman averaged 1.28 PPG after his 5 first playoff years
34 and 97 need to step up
hockeylover
Well-known member
I can't believe I have to say this, but you guys know about the Norris division in the 80s right?
His teams from 18-24 yrs old lost in the first round 3 times, missed the playoffs twice and and one of their conference finals appearances involved beating 52 point team in the second round.
GGpX
Well-known member
Sure. There's plenty of examples throughout history.
Holding it against a player because his team didn't go far in the playoffs is mainstream media-driven narrative that doesn't hold up to any kind of scrutiny. Also, comparing a player's production over a 82 game season to a playoff series ranging from 4 to 7 games is nonsense. Every player has stretches where they have slumps, sometimes they just so happen in playoffs.
You know why Matthews's production wasn't great last year? Because he ran into a hot goaltender. McDavid got basically wrestled into the ice without any reprecution because the NHL is run by fucking dinosaurs in clown uniforms.
Hockey isn't tennis, where the only standard of measuring greatness is wins.
Put Matthews or McDavid on Tampa Bay and try convincing me they're not a lock for 170 points / season and the centerpiece of a dynasty.
Holding it against a player because his team didn't go far in the playoffs is mainstream media-driven narrative that doesn't hold up to any kind of scrutiny. Also, comparing a player's production over a 82 game season to a playoff series ranging from 4 to 7 games is nonsense. Every player has stretches where they have slumps, sometimes they just so happen in playoffs.
You know why Matthews's production wasn't great last year? Because he ran into a hot goaltender. McDavid got basically wrestled into the ice without any reprecution because the NHL is run by fucking dinosaurs in clown uniforms.
Hockey isn't tennis, where the only standard of measuring greatness is wins.
Put Matthews or McDavid on Tampa Bay and try convincing me they're not a lock for 170 points / season and the centerpiece of a dynasty.
GGpX
Well-known member
I look at Deadmonton's roster and think, how exactly is McDavid supposed to do anything with this?
Draisaitl's headed to HHOF when his career's over, cool. Evander Kane, when he's playing hockey & nothing else, is a player everyone should want on their team. RNH is a good player on a good contract. Nurse is a good player, but he's grossly overpaid for what he brings.
After that, though, it's average to below average players or spare parts. They could have done what Colorado did & traded for Kuemper, who I don't think is some elite goaltender or anything near it, but he's better than fucking Mike Smith. Mike Smith, the same guy they didn't re-sign last year because they wanted an upgrade, only to re-sign him a few weeks later when they weren't able to get anyone else... to a two year deal!! For a 39 year old goaltender they didn't want anymore!!
Colorado gave up a 1st, 3rd & Conor Timmins for Kuemper. I don't think for a second Edmonton would be worst off if they did a 1st, 3rd & (let's say) Tyler Benson for Kuemper.
Draisaitl's headed to HHOF when his career's over, cool. Evander Kane, when he's playing hockey & nothing else, is a player everyone should want on their team. RNH is a good player on a good contract. Nurse is a good player, but he's grossly overpaid for what he brings.
After that, though, it's average to below average players or spare parts. They could have done what Colorado did & traded for Kuemper, who I don't think is some elite goaltender or anything near it, but he's better than fucking Mike Smith. Mike Smith, the same guy they didn't re-sign last year because they wanted an upgrade, only to re-sign him a few weeks later when they weren't able to get anyone else... to a two year deal!! For a 39 year old goaltender they didn't want anymore!!
Colorado gave up a 1st, 3rd & Conor Timmins for Kuemper. I don't think for a second Edmonton would be worst off if they did a 1st, 3rd & (let's say) Tyler Benson for Kuemper.
34 has toooooooo much talent to not be a star in the playoffs
He should of destroyed the Hab nots and Columbus , no excuses
They wont get 170 points , not even close
They would be paced differently , no need to ride them 22-28 minutes on most nights with a stacked line up
Give them maintenance days off when needed , no pressure to make the playoffs
Just get ready for the war healthy and rested
hockeylover
Well-known member
Uh, yes, sure. He needs to be better.
Comparing his playoff numbers to a star in the late 80s Norris division is still a really, really bad argument.
Its a valid debate with Matthews or any star player in any era .
34 is a 1.12 PPG in the regular season , .75 PPG in the playoffs
.63 GPG in the regular season , .40 in the playoffs
These are significant drop offs , not a bit below where its harder to produce in the playoffs and expected
If you lose this year in round 1 and 34 produces close to expectations , I have no issue
But you cant have 34 and 16 underwhelming again this year
GrandWazoo
Well-known member
Another Kraken win. Beniers is having an impact on the team already.
Going to be a hell of a player , and going to get a top 5 pick again this year
lecoqsportif
Well-known member
That’s a yuge win for the crackings. Habs looking good for at least 31st.
A good solid regulation loss tonight please
lecoqsportif
Well-known member
Need a couple of three-on-Os again. Price and Suzuki cannot be trusted with the tank.