The 2019-2020 MotherFucking Season Thread

[MindzEye]

Fwiw, I think the sparks experiment was a good one. Was legit elite in the ahl, and someone would have 100% claimed him if he hit waivers. Goalie evaluation is weird on all levels, eye test and analytics. Some guys just stop pucks when it looks like they shouldn't (tim Thomas...ffs)

This year though, no excuses. I get that getting marner locked up was the priority, but not bringing in other non crippled bodies to compete for the position was just bad management.

I still contend that the mistake was in not playing the arby process out with ceci and letting him walk, then using that 4.5 to bring in a waiver option (desmith, whoever) or trade for an unwanted contract (reimer, etc).

 

[leaffan2005]

Heh. Sort of.

Whereas Hal Gill was built like a refrigerator but at the same time was pound-for-pound the softest player in the league, Marincin's just a gangly, twitchy translucent alien with zero hockey sense, an awful panic threshold and zero puck skills.





Let's not re-write history here.

At the time, you wouldn't even acknowledge the possibility that Babcock was a problem at all.

I also don't recall you having any complaints about the starting goaltending. Your argument was that the core group of this team was rotten, and that before we even considered firing Babcock, we should start trading some of Matthews, Marner, Nylander, Tavares & Rielly.

Own your shame.

Yeah that's absolutely not true. I definitely did bring up that firing him could be an option, but I definitely did not think he was this team's biggest problem.

And to be honest the jury is still out on the core. They have played much better but there are still bad habits that remain. My criticisms were not based on being happy with a team that just barely makes the playoffs. A group like this should be dominating and really should be a powerhouse and that step has yet to be taken. Maybe it will but I wouldn't do the reverse gloat yet.

 

[MindzEye]

Being on a 115 point pace since the firing, over a third of the season isnt a "powerhouse"?

 

[MindzEye]

Oh...a 115 point pace while getting .900 goaltending.

 

[LeafGm]

Yeah that's absolutely not true. I definitely did bring up that firing him could be an option, but I definitely did not think he was this team's biggest problem.

And to be honest the jury is still out on the core. They have played much better but there are still bad habits that remain. My criticisms were not based on being happy with a team that just barely makes the playoffs. A group like this should be dominating and really should be a powerhouse and that step has yet to be taken. Maybe it will but I wouldn't do the reverse gloat yet.

Fair enough, looks like you're right about that point. I had a look in the archives, and you did concede back during the worst of our slide in November that you didn't care whether Babcock stayed or went, and that firing him may even give the team "a temporary boost".

But you did definitely argue that at least one of Matthews, Marner or Nylander needed to be traded.

 

[Wayward DP]

Oh...a 115 point pace while getting .900 goaltending.

= lots of questions remain, immature team, lack defensive intensity, etc

 

[hockeylover]

Yeah that's absolutely not true. I definitely did bring up that firing him could be an option, but I definitely did not think he was this team's biggest problem.

And to be honest the jury is still out on the core. They have played much better but there are still bad habits that remain. My criticisms were not based on being happy with a team that just barely makes the playoffs. A group like this should be dominating and really should be a powerhouse and that step has yet to be taken. Maybe it will but I wouldn't do the reverse gloat yet.

You actually ridiculed people who thought the two biggest problems were goaltending and Babcock.

And you gloated that you were right... *checks notes* 8 games into Keefe's being hired.

 

[MindzEye]

= lots of questions remain, immature team, lack defensive intensity, etc

We just played the best defensive team in the league and some people said they looked bad defensively....

That's just how hockey looks. You cant water ski or beat people up in front of the net anymore...chances happen and the game is better and more exciting for it. People need to adapt.

 

[Kritter]

Oh...a 115 point pace while getting .900 goaltending.

That simply boggles the mind.

 

[zeke]

Marincin is hot, stinking garbage.

**** your nerd stats.

10pim, +0

fine.

 

[zeke]

We just played the best defensive team in the league and some people said they looked bad defensively....

That's just how hockey looks. You cant water ski or beat people up in front of the net anymore...chances happen and the game is better and more exciting for it. People need to adapt.

best defense in hockey somehow let Matthews in point blank. and Hyman. and Nylander. all untouched, all by themselves, right in the slot.

god forbid the leafs ever did something like that.

 

[LeafGm]

best defense in hockey somehow let Matthews in point blank. and Hyman. and Nylander. all untouched, all by themselves, right in the slot.

god forbid the leafs ever did something like that.

But...but I have it on good authority that good defensive teams never allow scoring chances from prime scoring areas!

 

[MindzEye]

But...but I have it on good authority that good defensive teams never allow scoring chances from prime scoring areas!

Too many people get their opinion on what good defensive hockey looks like from 20 year old new Jersey replays on ESPN classic

 

[MindzEye]

best defense in hockey somehow let Matthews in point blank. and Hyman. and Nylander. all untouched, all by themselves, right in the slot.

god forbid the leafs ever did something like that.

Each chance would be shown on a loop during intermissions while the talking heads questioned whether you can win like that in the playoffs.

But when we do that on the regular to elite defensive teams, it's never a knock against them

 

[zeke]

But...but I have it on good authority that good defensive teams never allow scoring chances from prime scoring areas!

all chances aren't created equal! it's the QUALITY of the chances and the MAGNITUDE of the fuck ups that make the leafs D so bad!

 

[hockeylover]

Anddd Kevin Gravel back to the Marlies.

 

[MindzEye]

I was just here to get directions on how to get away from here

 

[leaffan2005]

That simply boggles the mind.

Still a small sample size. A couple of wins and losses drastically changes that number. Same with the save percentage. If he gets that kind of production with sub-par goaltending all year then you are absolutely right.

And with regards to other teams also giving up chances, I agree on this point. Things are obviously over-magnified in Toronto. But I can't be the only one seeing guys pinching in and cheating to break up the ice when we are up 4-1. And I mentioned before that the extreme emphasis on keeping the puck at times has led to bad giveaways in the defensive zone when they are trying to reset the play and get out of trouble. Some of those could have easily been avoided by simply dumping the puck away or playing it into the neutral zone off the boards.

The goaltending has definitely been sub-par. That is my whole argument right now. This guy has had 2 years now to figure it out and hasn't done anything aside from pick up a bunch of plugs from the scrap heap. That is costing the team lots of points. With the amount of shit Babs and others have gotten, he deserves his share of the blame for not addressing arguably a hockey team's most important position.

 

[zeke]

Still a small sample size. A couple of wins and losses drastically changes that number. Same with the save percentage. If he gets that kind of production with sub-par goaltending all year then you are absolutely right.

And with regards to other teams also giving up chances, I agree on this point. Things are obviously over-magnified in Toronto. But I can't be the only one seeing guys pinching in and cheating to break up the ice when we are up 4-1. And I mentioned before that the extreme emphasis on keeping the puck at times has led to bad giveaways in the defensive zone when they are trying to reset the play and get out of trouble. Some of those could have easily been avoided by simply dumping the puck away or playing it into the neutral zone off the boards.

The goaltending has definitely been sub-par. That is my whole argument right now. This guy has had 2 years now to figure it out and hasn't done anything aside from pick up a bunch of plugs from the scrap heap. That is costing the team lots of points. With the amount of shit Babs and others have gotten, he deserves his share of the blame for not addressing arguably a hockey team's most important position.

Expected Goals against Per 60min, All Situations:

16-17 (Babs): 28th
17-18 (Babs): 22nd
18-19 (Babs): 22nd
19-20 (Babs): 26th
19-20 (Keefe): 8th

And Keefe was missing his top 2 dmen for good chunks.

 

[Artnes]

Get a few timely saves and we're cooking with gas