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The Breaking Point

Killer93

Killer93

Well-known member
Thought this would be an interesting topic to discuss on here.

The 2014/15 regular season has a few months to go and already its looking like were more attentive to draft position as oppose to playoff position. The last real meaningful team/playoff run is now traced all the way back to the 2003/04 season. Yes we made the playoffs in 2013 but no one expected the Leafs to beat the Bruins, even though we took it to seven games.

We are now 11 years separated from the last run, meaning a whole generation of young kids have yet to see this team in any winning light. Now with the team poised for another rebuild, will this city start to lose some of the passionate fans? For me personally, I have been a fan since 1992, the days of Dougie and Wendel. By far one of my favourite teams of all time. I will always be a Leafs fan at heart (yes we all have teams that we like as well but its just not the same as the Leafs), however I even find with myself that the frustration is starting to become overbearing.

Someone made a comment in the GDT that hit home "how do people still go to the games" I for one cannot foresee myself spending $500 on tickets, $30 on parking, and $100 on beer to watch this team. But the main question I want to pose to everyone on here: will the team start to lose some of its passionate fan base at this rate? Secondly, would the fan base accept a long term rebuild if needed? I think there some great pieces here: (Kessel, Kadri, JVR, Rielly, Nylander) to build around, but outside of those 5 it would be open season for me (Bernier included) If there was a commitment from management to finally do this the right way and no more build on the fly crap, I am willing to give it another go, would love to hear other thoughts and comments on this topic.
 
Yea the bandwagonners will talk shit, but then be right back when they make the playoffs.

I'm now at a point where if they "blow it up", i won't lose any sleep over the players.

I've seen the arguments of how this teams lack of production is unsustainable over a larger scale, but the Leafs have proven over the last decade they only thing they can sustain is mediocrity. If its not lack of goal scoring, its poor defense. If its not defense, it the goalies shitting the bed. If its not the team, its the coach. Blah blah blah.

Its always something with this team. 5 years in a row this group has been shit. I f*cking hate losing.
 
I think that this game was it.

They're going to go into full on sell mode now. And when you subtract Santo, Winnik, Franson and others from the roster and replace them with incoming prospects, expiring contracts, and other non-impact players, this is going to go into serious tank mode.

We may find ourselves with a top 5 pick. I think we're top 8 at the moment. If we can get at least one more first rounder that provides some more shots at the lottery....

Watch out.

Because we're due. I'm setting myself up for an almost inevitable fall, but I'm going to hold out hope that somehow, some way, we get McDavid.

If we won the lottery AND had another top draft pick this year, just imagine what next year would look like with McDavid, Nylander, and others.
 
Load up on draft picks, baby.

As for the fans, there appears to be a never ending supply of idiots willing to shell out for seeing this shit. I haven't had interest in paying to see them since, well, I can't remember. I think the last time I went was close to 10 years ago (could have been Quinn's last season). For every person like me who losses interest in paying, there's 10 others willing to step up.

That's the weird thing about this franchise never having the balls to rebuild properly. It wouldn't hit them financially. For 40 years this franchise has been able to ice all manner of shit and still rake in cash. They need a GM with no ego.
 
Metalleaf said:
People might jump ship...but they'll be back when the team finally gets built properly.
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Is Shanny going to do a proper rebuild or patch and bandaid and fook it up like Burke and others did, that's the issue .
They fooked up , Burke had the chance to do a proper rebuild when he took over and now you are back to square one with poor chemistry , bloated contracts , and overrated players.
 
BeLeafer said:
Load up on draft picks, baby.

As for the fans, there appears to be a never ending supply of idiots willing to shell out for seeing this shit. I haven't had interest in paying to see them since, well, I can't remember. I think the last time I went was close to 10 years ago (could have been Quinn's last season). For every person like me who losses interest in paying, there's 10 others willing to step up.

That's the weird thing about this franchise never having the balls to rebuild properly. It wouldn't hit them financially. For 40 years this franchise has been able to ice all manner of shit and still rake in cash. They need a GM with no ego.
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They are still making the money BL but on the same token, imagine the money they make with even short playoff stints every year? It would be insane.

I buy that they are rich regardless of what happens, but I think the works (shareholders & management) do have a vested interest in seeing the team get there. They turn from millionaires to billionaires me thinks.
 
H9rSWzY.jpg


somebody touched up one of the older collapse photos.
 
In terms of passion for the team the fan base will suffer. I've already found myself feeling more apathy towards the team than any time in the past. I was able to buy part season tickets this year and do not regret the purchase but these remaining games are more of a social event with friends than about the game and team.

When a sporting event is as much about a social outing as it is supporting the team something has gone horribly wrong.
 
When that shot went in five seconds in to the second period last night, it was the summary of the season, and the organization. Bad luck, bad timing, bad decisions . . . well . . . bad just about everything.

Organizationally, the scouting sucks, player development blows and youngsters are thrown into the fray way before their time and the Leafs in their current incarnation is the result.

My view is, unless they're under the age of 23 and they have potential, get rid of them. Yes, that means everyone. Tank it. Suck big time, but commit to building from the ground floor up instead of a patchwork of overpaid players who's best years got them that dough, albeit on other teams. Toronto management rewards player success from other organizations which rarely translates into success in a Blue and White uniform. Toronto relies on these players instead of using them to complement home-grown talent. Not a good way to form a strong foundation.

Blow it up, build from within and use free agency to augment the home-built and developed foundation.

Take out a Craigslist Ad that says Players available . . . draft picks in return only

In five years, Toronto will be a perennial playoff team, and a contender instead its current status as the shite-heap fringe frustrating collection of perpetual losing.
 
GEEMAN said:
Is Shanny going to do a proper rebuild or patch and bandaid and fook it up like Burke and others did, that's the issue .
They fooked up , Burke had the chance to do a proper rebuild when he took over and now you are back to square one with poor chemistry , bloated contracts , and overrated players.
Click to expand...

A "proper rebuild?" Please.
This team has been rebuilding regularly since Ballard died.
They rebuilt and brought Dougie here, and he and Wendel got us as far as Kerry Fraser's love of Gretzky's cock would allow. Despite that, we couldn't have beaten the Habs that season.
We rebuilt after that around Sundin, and with the help of Quinn, had some good runs, including proving to the new / old Sens that they didn't have the heart to compete with us.
Again, we rebuilt, and along comes Burke to "right the ship."
In comes a new ownership group, and their first move is to shove Burke out the door, and here we are.
It was pointed out before how dysfunctional this management team is. The prez didn't hire the GM. The GM didn't hire the coach. The coach didn't hire his assistants. How can we expect a "proper rebuild" when we don't even have a "properly rebuilt" front office?
Rebuild again?
Why bother?
Just enjoy Kessel and Nylander and Reilly while you can.
 
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Its tough to just stop being a Leafs fan but the hockey we are forced to watch now isn't even close to being entertaining. Its hard to root for a bunch of guys that just quit, and on a regular basis. Those aren't the kind of teams or players the Toronto sports market gets behind. We love our Dougies, Roberts and Wendels, that even when losing leave everything they have out there on the table.

Its just not fun to watch these guys play.
 
Someone made a comment in the GDT that hit home "how do people still go to the games" I for one cannot foresee myself spending $500 on tickets, $30 on parking, and $100 on beer to watch this team. But the main question I want to pose to everyone on here: will the team start to lose some of its passionate fan base at this rate? Secondly, would the fan base accept a long term rebuild if needed? I think there some great pieces here: (Kessel, Kadri, JVR, Rielly, Nylander) to build around, but outside of those 5 it would be open season for me (Bernier included) If there was a commitment from management to finally do this the right way and no more build on the fly crap, I am willing to give it another go, would love to hear other thoughts and comments on this topic.
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If they are willing to bring in the key people to build correctly and turn it into a perennial contender then I think most would stick around.

The key to turning this team in a legit contender is the board trusting Shanny and Co. with their plan and letting them stick to it.

After a few years in the gutter I am confident in the new management group to have this team on the right path.
 
Artnes said:
If they are willing to bring in the key people to build correctly and turn it into a perennial contender then I think most would stick around.

The key to turning this team in a legit contender is the board trusting Shanny and Co. with their plan and letting them stick to it.

After a few years in the gutter I am confident in the new management group to have this team on the right path.
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What was their plan? Shanny comes in and... does NOTHING?? Carlyle is kept. Nonis is kept. Virtually all front office personnel were kept.
If we expect a rebuild to be successful here, we need a clean sweep starting from everyone below Shanny. Rebuild our management. Only then can a rebuild of the team make sense.
 
They have rebuilt the management. Nonis is the only guy still around and I suspect he won't be after this shitshow.
 
A good boss will never go in a clean house right away. They will assess what they have and replace where they see fit.

He brought in three key players in Dubas, Hunter and Pridham and I am confident he will add more.

Too many are focusing on Shannahan and not the bigger picture and that is the management group he is assembling.

A cliche as it is, a sign of a good boss is the people he surrounds himself with
 
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Also hired Pirdham as a capologist, who essentially wrote the CBA.

And created a whole analytics department. And added guys like Staios to the development program. And adds SAP for analytic assistance. The management of the team has seen big changes over the last 9 months.
 
This is without question the most hateable Leaf team I've ever seen, and it's partly because of all the talent they've got on the roster. They should be a lot better, but this team just has zero fight in them, and absolutely no ability or willingness to deal with any kind of adversity.

Still, as a Leaf fan, I'm not going anywhere. And I'd be surprised if any of the other regulars around here pulled a "Phony Pony" either. The existing casual fans will also all come running back if the team ever gets good again. But the question Killer's posed about the newest generation of Leaf fans is an interesting one. You have to wonder what kind of interest any of us would have in this team if we'd been born in the year 2000. For a kid born that year, by the time they would have been old enough to understand anything that's going on, they'd be into the post-lockout era, where it's been nothing but an almost unbroken string of below-average to terrible, uninspiring Leaf teams and awful hockey to watch.

It'll be interesting to see what's going to happen as those kids grow up. Even if the Leafs become good again, will they be a "lost generation" for this team?
 
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