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The Breaking Point

For me it's two different feelings.

This is by far the most hatable leafs' team I've ever followed (been a fan since 97. That year's team wasn't good but I was just learning hockey so it doesn't count).

Having said that, I have not been this happy since Sundin left. You guys once named me the president of tank nation and it's finally happening. You will love the number one centre we'll send out there for the next ten years. I promise. Just finish bottom 5 and cross your fingers (if it was up to me I'd start losing from game 1, so this doesn't count as a full tank either but I take it at this point)
 
The pundits and fans always talk about "Will the fans be patient with a rebuild" and "we really should try to get that lottery pick to build properly"..... yet when we lose, and have kept losing, the media keeps shiiting on them and saying that they all have to go.

Shiit of get off the pot. If you want that rebuild take the losses, and when a trade is made, don't crap on the guy leaving, or crap on the guys staying.
 
CTheBigPicture said:
For me it's two different feelings.

This is by far the most hatable leafs' team I've ever followed (been a fan since 97. That year's team wasn't good but I was just learning hockey so it doesn't count).

Having said that, I have not been this happy since Sundin left. You guys once named me the president of tank nation and it's finally happening. You will love the number one centre we'll send out there for the next ten years. I promise. Just finish bottom 5 and cross your fingers (if it was up to me I'd start losing from game 1, so this doesn't count as a full tank either but I take it at this point)
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I seriously want to lose the games like the New Jersey one all year. Play well defensively.Out shoot the opposition, score first and then lose in the last 5 minutes.

Instil a sense of defense and get into that top 5
 
I like the makeup of this team, that they can't score in this system is perplexing. Like they've been told that they can only shoot from inside 15 feet of the net. The powerplay is great at possession, but terrible at setting up any quality chances. It's like they are being coached to be low-scoring.

The most hateable team in the last decade was certainly the one with Jason Allison and Jeff O'Neill in the top-six.
 
BG said:
I like the makeup of this team, that they can't score in this system is perplexing. Like they've been told that they can only shoot from inside 15 feet of the net. The powerplay is great at possession, but terrible at setting up any quality chances. It's like they are being coached to be low-scoring.

The most hateable team in the last decade was certainly the one with Jason Allison and Jeff O'Neill in the top-six.
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Nah. Those teams were short on talent. That doesn't make the team hatable for me. This group of players should be able to compete, at least for a playpffs spot, they just don't have the commitment to do so. That's why I can't stand them.
 
Leafyblue said:
Two words: Gary Roberts. Get this "man" on board.
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They should have jumped on that train immediately after Roberts retired.

Now that he's got his own business up and running, with a client list of all-stars, I can't see him being interested in working exclusively for any team.
 
that the new guys in charge seem to be focussed, yet again, on getting rid of assets instead of on assets to add depresses the hell out of me.

same mistake every new management here makes.

trading everyone for a bunch of midround picks doesn't help a rebuild anywhere near as much as people pretend it doesn
 
zeke said:
that the new guys in charge seem to be focussed, yet again, on getting rid of assets instead of on assets to add depresses the hell out of me.

same mistake every new management here makes.

trading everyone for a bunch of midround picks doesn't help a rebuild anywhere near as much as people pretend it doesn
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+1

Identify the real problems (Phaneuf and JVR in my opinion), and look to deal them for the required parts to keep this current build going.

I also liked how Burke would trade his own picks, but preferred to have prospects coming back in deals. Known commodities.
 
Where does anyone get the impression that they are going to trade everyone for midround picks?

I think the expensive, underperforming vets like Bozak, Lupul, Phaneuf etc are in danger. But I don't think they will be selling off the young assets they have drafted/acquired.
 
The unfortunate reality of a cap is you just can't "keep adding" when you are a cap team with major holes. Where are you supposed to get the core build blocks missing here with no cap space, and no appitite to trade young players?

This team is just poorly built and they need to clear out some of the garbage and get back to work on laying the foundation of the team.

They also need to find away to get center and defense help, and maybe that comes in a big deal, moving out a core piece.
 
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leafman101 said:
The unfortunate reality of a cap is you just can't "keep adding" when you are a cap team with major holes. Where are you supposed to get the core build blocks missing here with no cap space, and no appitite to trade young players?

This team is just poorly built and they need to clear out some of the garbage and get back to work on laying the foundation of the team.

.
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"clearing out garbage" is backwards, especially since the only real garbage here is unmovable.

if you want good young pieces and good draft picks, then trade useful players for them.

but the idea that trading franson and lupul away for midround picks helps a rebuild is weird logic. the k ly thing that helps us do is add more overpaid free agents.
 
zeke said:
"clearing out garbage" is backwards, especially since the only real garbage here is unmovable.

if you want good young pieces and good draft picks, then trade useful players for them.

but the idea that trading franson and lupul away for midround picks helps a rebuild is weird logic. the k ly thing that helps us do is add more overpaid free agents.
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Lupul is never healthy, and that kind of long term cap hit for a player that doesn't play is detrimental to a team.

He should 100% be moved for picks
 
zeke said:
"clearing out garbage" is backwards, especially since the only real garbage here is unmovable.

if you want good young pieces and good draft picks, then trade useful players for them.

but the idea that trading franson and lupul away for midround picks helps a rebuild is weird logic. the k ly thing that helps us do is add more overpaid free agents.
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But how do they even have a choice where Franson is concerned? We just don't have the cap space to give him what he'll want, unless we can successfully dump another big salary.

And you actually still want to keep Lupul around at this point? I accept that we might have to keep the guy around until he can stay healthy and productive enough to recoup some of his trade value (i.e., until he maybe gets to the point where he wouldn't be a pure salary dump with negative trade value). But after his mediocre performance last year, and with the constant injuries, I can't understand how any Leaf fan wouldn't want to be rid of this guy.
 
zeke said:
"clearing out garbage" is backwards, especially since the only real garbage here is unmovable.

if you want good young pieces and good draft picks, then trade useful players for them.

but the idea that trading franson and lupul away for midround picks helps a rebuild is weird logic. the k ly thing that helps us do is add more overpaid free agents.
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Nope. It creates cap flexibility. Which is oddly undervalued around here considering there is a cap.

The Leafs just keep trying to keep everyone. And keep "adding" and they just end up with an overpaid team that stinks anyway.

Cap flexibility is vital. You specifically used to preach only spend significant cap dollars on top players, and now you want to just keep everyone, and keep adding. That is how you end up in this situation. You have to draft well, buy low, sell high, and maintain a flexible cap position, so that you can actually get the pieces you need when they become available. You only lock in these big, long term deals with your building block players. Not secondary guys like Lupul, Franson, Bozak, etc.
 
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Fixing the Leafs is not going to be overly easy actually. Its a complicated situation. You could theorize that it might be 3-5 years potentially before this team might be something. In that case, is a guy like Kessel going to be all that, when he is three years older? A game built on speed and snap?

Same goes for JVR, is he going to be harder working in three years after raking in his millions?

I think what is required is getting someone with a ton more vision than Nonis. I am puzzled that he is still here.

We got rid of Carlyle, and many here seem pleased with that. As am I. But to do it and completely change the way the team plays, is really tough, its making all our assets look like they are carrying around snow shovels instead of hockey sticks. Not great timing.

Anyways, top 12 draft picks in this years draft are very valuable. Lots could be said for trading a Bozak at the chance of getting one of them. A JVR for that? Hmmm could end up being a flop.

You have to think some teams are drooling over two players on the Leafs, possibly four. Phaneuf(cause he really is a very good dman)Franson, Kessel and JVR.

If you can play them off with each other you just might get an offer you cannot refuse. The L.A. Kings have to be getting desperate to fit into the playoffs so they can with the Cup again.
 
And yes, if they want to get core assets in a trade then they will have to deal some of their valuable pieces in return, which is what I said. And IMO no one is untouchable if the right deal comes a long.
 
And cap flexibility just increases in importance when you already have $5.25 million of dead cap space each year for the next 5 years.

Its not affordable to just keep everyone, and keep adding. You have to make difficult decisions. You have to move on from guys when they are no longer affordable. Look at a team like Chicago. They are constantly moving their secondary pieces out. They aren't locking them up to 5+ year deals.
 
My Gary Roberts scenario

Leaf Player: You wanted to see me Gary?

Roberts: :nono

Leaf Player: Uhmm...sorry...you wanted to see me Mr Roberts? Sir?

Roberts: Yes...you missed an assignment last night which resulted in a goal against. What happened?

Leaf Player: Well..uhmm...it was the end of a shift and I didn't have the legs to backcheck.

Roberts: I see. Ok...drink this smoothie.

Leaf Player: But...Mr Roberts....it tastes like shit.

Roberts: It should....it's made with MY shit. Now drink it.

Leaf Player: But....Yes sir.

Leaf Player: Will there be anything else today Sir?

Roberts: Yes. Get over here and drop your pants. Time for my special Pineapple ennima.

Leaf Player: But but! Will it hurt?

Roberts: That depends. Are you going to miss another assignment that leads to a goal?

Leaf Player: No sir...I will not.

Roberts: Ok then...I'll peel the pineapple...this time.
 
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