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The ****ing Pre-Season/Training Camp Thread (2019/20)

Preston said:
Sandin, Marinch, gravel will be the 5/6/7 imo. Maybe schmaltz ahead of gravel for the rhd effect though.


Sandin seems like a stone cold lock based on babs' ejaculation over him.
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Sandin I can see getting a 9ish game tryout in the regular season until Dermott is back. I doubt Marcinin is anywhere but the AHL come opening night, he may see 5-10 games of spotting duty if there's injuries on the back end. Gravel hasn't shown anything, other than that he's an OK fighter, that's not good enough to secure a spot.

I'd say the blueline come opening night looks something like this:

Rielly-Ceci
Barrie-Muzzin
Harpur-Sandin
*Schmaltz as the 7D
 
BeLeafer said:
Here's the ppp discussion about the bonus and LTIR:


www.pensionplanpuppets.com

Who wins the Maple Leafs Minimum Salary Olympics?

Who’s making the Leafs? The player with the lowest cap hit or the best player?
www.pensionplanpuppets.com www.pensionplanpuppets.com

I'd look into it myself but I'd rather pull toenails than read the CBA.
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Yeah I think we can safely say that we have to fit the bonuses under the cap when using ltir. I remember that from previous years.
 
Yeah, I think there's a misunderstanding here. Bonuses don't count against the cap until they're triggered.

The catch with LTIR is that in order to use it, you have to be mashed up as close against the cap ceiling as possible, and then unlike regular cap space, you can't use any of that LTIR space you've opened up to account for performance bonuses. That's why the Leafs stayed below the cap ceiling for the entirety of last season, and never even put Nathan Horton on LTIR.

Because they knew that there was a very good chance Marner & Matthews would be able to max out their rather large performance bonuses ($2.85M for Matthews, $850K for Marner), and unless they were far enough under the non-LTIR cap limit to account for that money last year, that bonus money would've rolled over into this coming season, where Dubas already knew it was tight to be able to afford to keep the band together.

So comparatively, Liljegren and his $400K in bonus money aren't nearly as big a deal. It's a fraction of Marner & Matthews' combined bonus money, and Liljegren is much less likely to put in a star-calibre performance and attain those bonuses.

And while Dubas isn't going to have an easy job by any means, next season won't be as tight a squeeze as this season, with a lot of money coming off the books and the cap hopefully going up as well. So a small amount of bonus money rolling into next year's cap isn't a doomsday scenario.
 
From Capfriendly:

How is LTIR Relief calculated?
LTIR relief comes in the form of two values: a salary relief pool, and a performance bonus relief pool.

These pools are determined the day the player is placed on LTIR. The salary relief pool is the player’s averaged salary excluding performance bonuses (their cap hit value). The performance bonus relief is the player’s total performance bonuses for this season (games played, A and B bonuses), regardless of if they are still achievable.

What if the team already has a player on LTIR?
The teams ACSL remains the same, and their salary relief pool increases by the player’s cap hit, and the performance bonus relief pool increases by the player’s performance bonuses.

How does a team use the base salary and performance bonus relief pools?
As explained above, two pools are created when a player is placed on LTIR, a salary pool, and a performance bonus pool. If recalling a player would result in the team exceeding the ACSL, the team must have enough relief in the necessary pools. Only the players achievable performance bonuses are considered when they are recalled, for example, if a player has an 82 games played performance bonus of $500,000, and it is impossible for them to achieve those 82 games, the $500,000 performance bonus is no longer considered.

Players with performance bonuses
The team must have a salary relief pool that is equal to or greater than the player’s cap hit. After the salary relief pool has been considered, the sum of the teams performance bonus pool and remaining salary relief pool must be equal to or greater than the player’s max achievable performance bonuses of the current season (the player’s achievable performance bonuses can come out of both the salary and performance bonus pool).
Click to expand...

www.capfriendly.com

Thank You - CapFriendly - NHL Salary Caps

Thank you for the amazing 9 years
www.capfriendly.com www.capfriendly.com

So basically I think you have to count the players performance bonus in LTIR until it is 100% not achievable. Which is the opposite of non-LTIR where it does not count until it is achieved, in which case it can be carried over to next year.

Lilly can't make the team until he has no chance of achieving his bonuses.
 
Last edited:
Goat has a great chance to make the team because he is our cheapest forward. When everyone's healthy this lineup works under the cap, as Sandin and Dermott don't have any bonuses:

FORWARDS (12)
Right wing: William Nylander ($6,962,366) - Mitchell Marner ($10,893,000) - Kasperi Kapanen ($3,200,000) - Frédérik Gauthier ($675,000)
Centre: Auston Matthews ($11,634,000) - John Tavares ($11,000,000) - Alexander Kerfoot ($3,500,000) - Jason Spezza ($700,000)
Left wing: Andreas Johnsson ($3,400,000) - Zach Hyman ($2,250,000) - Ilya Mikheyev ($925,000) - Trevor Moore ($775,000)

DEFENSE (6)
Right: Cody Ceci ($4,500,000) - Tyson Barrie ($2,750,000) - Travis Dermott ($863,333)
Left: Morgan Rielly ($5,000,000) - Jake Muzzin ($4,000,000) - Rasmus Sandin ($894,167)

GOALTENDER (2)
Frederik Andersen ($5,000,000) - Michael Hutchinson ($700,000)

RETAINED SALARY TRANSACTIONS (1)
Phil Kessel ($1,200,000)

DETAILS
Roster Size: 20
Salary Cap: $81,500,000
Cap Hit: $80,821,866
Cap Space: $678,134
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And they have room to call up Holl as an extra on the road.

But cap space doesn't accumulate in LTIR, so basically they can't do anything at the deadline unless they move someone like Ceci.
 
leafman101 said:
From Capfriendly:



www.capfriendly.com

Thank You - CapFriendly - NHL Salary Caps

Thank you for the amazing 9 years
www.capfriendly.com www.capfriendly.com

So basically I think you have to count the players performance bonus in LTIR until it is 100% not achievable. Which is the opposite of non-LTIR where it does not count until it is achieved, in which case it can be carried over to next year.

Lilly can't make the team until he has no chance of achieving his bonuses.
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There's room for lilly still.
 
Leafs announce their lineup for tonight's game.

Looks like anyone who was planning to watch can find something else to do, as it's pretty much an all-scrub lineup:

 



big game for all the borderline guys.

possible lines:

Agostino - Shore - Aberg
Petan - Brooks - Bracco
Engvall - Gaudet - Elynuik
Korshkov - Conrad - Read

Harpur - Schmaltz
Gravel - Liljegren
Rubins - Holl
 
LeafGm said:
Looks like anyone who was planning to watch can find something else to do, as it's pretty much an all-scrub lineup:
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honestly this might be the most important game of the pre-season in terms of who makes the roster.
 
Looking at that roster it looks like everyone's playing for one forward spot and one defense spot.

the guys not playing tonight:

Johnsson - Matthews - Nylander
(Hyman) - Tavares - Marner
Mikheyev - Kerfoot - Kapanen
Moore - Gauthier - Spezza

Rielly - Ceci
Muzzin - Barrie
Sandin - (Dermott)

am I missing anyone else that slots ahead of the guys playing tonight?
 
oh marincin isn't playing tonight, so maybe he's got the edge for that last spot on D.
 
Kivihalme and Timashov, too, but I'm not sure that means they'd be ahead of anyone playing tonight. but not impossible, as I think both have played well.
 
Looks to me like nothing but a Bubble Team. Pretty much everyone on that roster is a bubble guy (plus filler of AHL/ECHL guys).
 
Lines for next game:



Moore gets bumped up to the 3rd line (still think it makes more sense to swap him and Kappy here), and Timashov gets his 4th line spot.

Marincin with Sandin, unsurprisingly, and no kivihalme.


big big opportunit yfor Tima, who has looked good, and would need to clear waivers to be sent to the marlies.
 
Agree on Moore, of course.

Interesting to see Timashov in there. He's played well in the preseason and has continually improved his numbers each year on the Marlies. Given he's up for waivers, I'd guess they want to see if he can perform in the NHL.
 
zeke said:
Lines for next game:



Moore gets bumped up to the 3rd line (still think it makes more sense to swap him and Kappy here), and Timashov gets his 4th line spot.

Marincin with Sandin, unsurprisingly, and no kivihalme.


big big opportunit yfor Tima, who has looked good, and would need to clear waivers to be sent to the marlies.
Click to expand...



I'd say it's a good bet that's pretty much our opening-night lineup.

In the absence of any other defensemen besides Sandin stepping up and grabbing hold of a spot, I could definitely see Babcock going with the devil he knows in Martin Marincin. Also helps that Marincin's an experienced PKer and that he's not just a Babcock toy. Dubas also likes him.

I've already mentioned that I'm almost certain that Goat's hung on to his spot.

I think it's also looking pretty clear that Moore deserves to play in the top-9 of this sans-Hyman lineup.

The only spot I'm not sure of is Timashov's. Did he have a standout performance in Friday's game or something? I missed that one.
 
yeah Tima looked legit good on friday. not just effort level but puck control and confidence, too.

I still don't think the roster is finalized, though. Plenty of room tonight for a number of guys to stake a claim to a spot, and Tima and Marincin are anything but locks at this point.

Goat, I agree, unfortunately is a lock.
 
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