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The Mother-fucking goddamn Off-season Thread

leafman101 said:
Funny think is Muzz was an offensive dman. His offensive impact was always drove his game and is what made him a high end top pair D at his peak.
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He definitely was a top even strength dman producer in his time here - and that's league wide (like Top-10/20) not just on the leafs. All while handling the top defensive matchups as well.
 
zeke said:
You really embarassed yourself with your Muzzin takes.

to nobody's surprise, the top pair that dominated last year's top matchups against Tampa was badly, badly missed this year, with his replacement floundering.

even while Rielly was busy being the best puck moving offensive dman in the playoffs.
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Sure, my takes that he was a waste of money, a totally immobile lug, and an injury waiting to happen.

That really blew up in my face. I'm sure next year he'll humiliate me even more from his reserved seat on the LTIR train.
 
Even Strength Paces

2018-19

Rielly 17gls/51pts
Muzzin 11gls/33pts
Gardiner 4gls/33pts
Dermott 5gls/22pts
Hainsey 4gls/22pts
Zaitsev 3gls/11pts

Playoffs

Rielly 12gls/47pts
Dermott 12gls/35pts
Muzzin 0gls/23pts
Gardiner 0gls/23pts
Hainsey 0gls/12pts
Zaitsev 0gls/0pts



2019-20

Rielly 5gls/35pts
Muzzin 9gls/34pts
Barrie 5gls/32pts
Holl 2gls/22pts
Dermott 6gls/16pts
Ceci 2gls/12pts

Playoffs

Rielly 16gls/16pts
Dermott 0gls/16pts
Muzzin 0gls/0pts (only played 1.5gms)
Holl 0gls/0pts
Barrie 0gls/0pts
Ceci 0gls/0pts
Marincin 0gls/0pts


2020-21

Muzzin 3gls/37pts
Rielly 6gls/33pts
Holl 3gls/28pts
Brodie 2gls/16pts
Dermott 3gls/10pts
Bogosian 0gls/8pts

Playoffs

Muzzin 27gls/41pts
Rielly 12gls/23pts
Brodie 12gls/23pts
Sandin 16gls/16pts
Holl 0gls/12pts
Bogosian 0gls/12pts
Liljegren 0gls/0pts



2021-22

Rielly 8gls/42pts
Giordano 8gls/33pts (20gms)
Liljegren 6gls/28pts
Brodie 4gls/25pts
Holl 2gls/24pts
Muzzin 5gls/23pts (multiple injuries only played 47gms)
Sandin 8gls/21pts
Boosh 5gls/16pts (31gms)

Playoffs

Rielly 23gls/47pts
Muzzin 23gls/35pts
Holl 0gls/16pts
Brodie 0gls/12pts
Giordano 0gls/12pts
Boosh 0gls/12pts
Liljegren 0gls/0pts




Muzzin was an impact offensive and defensive dman for us. 2nd only to Rielly (and close or even ahead of Rielly in some years), and ahead of guys like Barrie and Gardiner. And that includes last year's playoffs for us.
 
LeafOfFaith said:
Sure, my takes that he was a waste of money, a totally immobile lug, and an injury waiting to happen.

That really blew up in my face. I'm sure next year he'll humiliate me even more from his reserved seat on the LTIR train.
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Yep, your take was and is embarassing.

You don't even seem to realize that Muzzin had a better offensive impact at even strength relative to position than your slug boy tavares who cost twice as much. even while facing the toughest defensive matchups on the team, unlike your sheltered slugboy tavares.

and the one thing you've tried to take credit for is his injury - without realizing that his injury just put him on LTIR and we used his money elsewhere anyways.
 
I don't think LOF ever suggested Muzzin was always useless; he just said trade him before his game fell off a cliff, which it did. Nostalgic stats can be dangerous.
 
zeke said:
Yep, your take was and is embarassing.

You don't even seem to realize that Muzzin had a better offensive impact at even strength relative to position than your slug boy tavares who cost twice as much. even while facing the toughest defensive matchups on the team, unlike your sheltered slugboy tavares.

and the one thing you've tried to take credit for is his injury - without realizing that his injury just put him on LTIR and we used his money elsewhere anyways.
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Thanks for the history lesson on Jake Muzzin when he was alive and well. That guy died a while ago, though.

He had a surprisingly decent playoff series last year after being shit and injured all year (likely because he missed half the season and was rested for the postseason), and had 3 unforgettable points in our 7 game loss, the offensive dynamo that he is.

And then last year at this time, I was pleading for us to TRADE him after that cute little series, so that we could actually get something for him off that brief little showing, because it was clear he was done and almost certainly would be even less durable this year, and lo and behold, the guy missed the whole season. So now we get to display his corpse in the pressbox to boost team morale and inspire them to win for their fallen comrade.

My take couldn't have been more perfect.
 
Preston said:
Nah LOF always hated Muzzin. He was another Beauchemin to him, who he was also wrong about!
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ok. maybe LOF was wrong back then..I don't know. All I know he's on a heater this past 24 months and perhaps I was clouded by #recencybias
 
Preston said:
Nah LOF always hated Muzzin. He was another Beauchemin to him, who he was also wrong about!
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Not true, I didn't always hate him. I just never loved him. I wasn't thrilled when we got him, didn't think he was in any way some incredible player once he started playing for us, and was sort of just a solid middle pair guy.

But over time, he just got more injured, way slower, and just gradually was turning into a pumpkin, and it was time to sell last offseason, and we blew it. Writing was on the wall but Dubie took his glasses off.

And Beauchemin and Muzzin have nothing to do with each other. Beauchemin was literally one of the worst Leafs dmen ever, in the history of the franchise.
 
CH1 said:
I don't think LOF ever suggested Muzzin was always useless; he just said trade him before his game fell off a cliff, which it did. Nostalgic stats can be dangerous.
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no.

and his game never fell of a cliff - he was fantastic in last year's playoffs.

he just got his head mushed.
 
The fact that LOF got zeke to shame and trivialize his captain is a massive win for LOF.
 
Put it this way, if Tavares was shit next season and then has a dynamite playoffs liek Muzzin had last year, do we really think LOF is gonna be on the "trade Tavares" train? Of course not. He is very attached to the players he likes. And there's nothing wrong with that. He's simply a fan of Tavares and never liked Muzzin. Go wild, my friend!
 
LeafOfFaith said:
Thanks for the history lesson on Jake Muzzin when he was alive and well. That guy died a while ago, though.

He had a surprisingly decent playoff series last year after being shit and injured all year (likely because he missed half the season and was rested for the postseason), and had 3 unforgettable points in our 7 game loss, the offensive dynamo that he is.

And then last year at this time, I was pleading for us to TRADE him after that cute little series, so that we could actually get something for him off that brief little showing, because it was clear he was done and almost certainly would be even less durable this year, and lo and behold, the guy missed the whole season. So now we get to display his corpse in the pressbox to boost team morale and inspire them to win for their fallen comrade.

My take couldn't have been more perfect.
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yes the guy that died a while ago dominated the Bolts top matchups last year, yep.

and the guy who you didn't think needed replacing was of course hugely missed in the playoffs this year, with his attempted replacement (a guy you repeatedly tried to big up) failing badly in the same role.

and of course we used all his caphit this year anyways, so there were no cap issues thanks to him.

but yes i'm sure your mythical trade return for him would have been better than what we ended up using his capspace on anyways.
 
Preston said:
Put it this way, if Tavares was shit next season and then has a dynamite playoffs liek Muzzin had last year, do we really think LOF is gonna be on the "trade Tavares" train? Of course not. He is very attached to the players he likes. And there's nothing wrong with that. He's simply a fan of Tavares and never liked Muzzin. Go wild, my friend!
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I agree....Leafs probably go further in the playoffs if one their AGMs was emotionally wired like LOF.
Trading Muzzin last summer would have given the roster some much needed depth scoring.
 
If we learned anything from Vegas it’s the Leafs shouldn’t sign mid tier guys like Garland ROR etc, and should allocate their cap space to the top player available (could be Helly, though ideally a dman) and actually use the biggest analytics department in the league to find some Stephenson/Karlsson/Carriers for cheap.
 
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