The Mother-fucking goddamn Off-season Thread

[Volcanologist]

Ekholm was the deadline move. Glasses blew it.

 

[CH1]

If we learned anything from Vegas it’s the Leafs shouldn’t sign mid tier guys like Garland ROR etc, and should allocate their cap space to the top player available (could be Helly, though ideally a dman) and actually use the biggest analytics department in the league to find some Stephenson/Karlsson/Carriers for cheap.

hasn't that been the blueprint all along...top heavy dollars spent on stars surrounded by undervalued support staffers.

it just hasn't worked out...because hockey has randomness built in

 

[zeke]

Its going to surprise you to realize that Vegas didnt spend any more money on depth forwards than the Leafs did.

 

[Preston]

Ekholm was the deadline move. Glasses blew it.

Yeah, it's hard to win a cup without an elite dominant top pair. Ekholm would have certainly ticked off that box. Going for the discount Muzzin was responsible financially but it was a bit of a pipe dream to think it was going to work out.

 

[leafman101]

Just looking at the rumoured names they probably should just trade for Hellebucyk. Unless Calgary is spooked enough to trade Lindholm or Hanifin.

 

[CH1]

vegas is not really a model that is different than most teams

they grab top end talent when available -- thats cost $$$
they fill out the rest of the roster the best they can
pray

 

[leafman101]

vegas is not really a model that is different than most teams

they grab top end talent when available -- thats cost $$$
they fill out the rest of the roster the best they can
pray

except they find tons of gems because they rely on their analytics department to find the best olayers and aren’t looking for a “Tampa like player”. It’s in the execution.

 

[CH1]

Yeah, it's hard to win a cup without an elite dominant top pair. Ekholm would have certainly ticked off that box. Going for the discount Muzzin was responsible financially but it was a bit of a pipe dream to think it was going to work out.

yeah...25 + key mins per night when you can rest easy knowing that everything will probably be OK is golden

 

[LeafGm]

vegas is not really a model that is different than most teams

they grab top end talent when available -- thats cost $$$
they fill out the rest of the roster the best they can
pray

They’re also, maybe even moreso than Tampa, totally shameless when it comes to manipulating LTIR & the salary cap.

 

[CH1]

except they find tons of gems because they rely on their analytics department to find the best olayers and aren’t looking for a “Tampa like player”. It’s in the execution.

believe it or not "Tampa like player" is also based on analytics...every trader worships different numbers and indicators

 

[leafman101]

Vegas doesn’t really have a Muzzin/Ekholm. But they have 2 Riellys.

Same with the Avs. Their top dmen were Makar, Toews, Byram.

 

[LeafOfFaith]

no.

and his game never fell of a cliff - he was fantastic for 7 games.

he just got his head mushed.

 

[CH1]

They’re also, maybe even moreso than Tampa, totally shameless when it comes to manipulating LTIR & the salary cap.

weren't they forced to dress a minimum amount of players a few times over the years?

 

[Preston]

Vegas doesn’t really have a Muzzin/Ekholm. But they have 2 Riellys.

Hard to win a cup without one, not impossible of course.

 

[LeafOfFaith]

Put it this way, if Tavares was shit next season and then has a dynamite playoffs liek Muzzin had last year, do we really think LOF is gonna be on the "trade Tavares" train? Of course not. He is very attached to the players he likes. And there's nothing wrong with that. He's simply a fan of Tavares and never liked Muzzin. Go wild, my friend!

Of course I love Tavares. He's been a consistently awesome player throughout his career, not just with the Leafs.

If he goes to shit and puts up 30 points next year, I'll be claiming he's awesome still? Or will I say his game fell off a cliff?

Beyond the fact that he's good, I've also repeatedly laid out the case for why trading him while he's productive makes zero sense.

If he becomes a 30 point player next year, trading him would be an outright impossibility.

 

[CH1]

at least we know it's now possible to win a Cup with a player taking up $10M of salary cap

 

[LeafOfFaith]

yes the guy that died a while ago dominated the Bolts top matchups last year, yep.

and the guy who you didn't think needed replacing was of course hugely missed in the playoffs this year, with his attempted replacement (a guy you repeatedly tried to big up) failing badly in the same role.

and of course we used all his caphit this year anyways, so there were no cap issues thanks to him.

but yes i'm sure your mythical trade return for him would have been better than what we ended up using his capspace on anyways.

He was not missed in the playoffs this year. We got killed by slow, unskilled guys. Having another one playing big minutes, and on D, would've hurt us, not helped us.

Who did I try to "big up"? McCabe? I thought he did some nice things (particularly his big hits and his skating), which you always agreed with, but I've never declared him some great player or anything. He can stay or go, but he's good value at $2M.

My mythical trade return for him would've been ANYTHING because I knew he was finished and we would get NOTHING out of him if we kept him. Go check the receipts.

 

[zeke]

* = deadline additions

5.Smith $5.0 --- O'Reilly $7.5*
6.Roy $3.0 --- Kerfoot $3.5
7.Stephenson $2.8 --- Jarnkrok $2.1
8.Barbashev $2.25* --- Bunting $1.0

9.Howden $1.5 --- Kampf $1.5
10.Carrier $1.4 --- Acciari $1.3*
11.Kolesar $1.4 --- Lafferty $1.2*
12.Amadio $0.8 --- Knies $0.9
13.Kessel $1.5 --- ZAR $0.8

​

 

[LeafOfFaith]

Vegas doesn’t really have a Muzzin/Ekholm. But they have 2 Riellys.

Same with the Avs. Their top dmen were Makar, Toews, Byram.

And that was my point that started this all.

Having big lugs is not the way to go. Having skill guys who can skate and make plays on D is what you need.

 

[zeke]

He was not missed in the playoffs this year. We got killed by slow, unskilled guys. Having another one playing big minutes, and on D, would've hurt us, not helped us.

Who did I try to "big up"? McCabe? I thought he did some nice things (particularly his big hits and his skating), which you always agreed with, but I've never declared him some great player or anything. He can stay or go, but he's good value at $2M.

My mythical trade return for him would've been ANYTHING because I knew he was finished and we would get NOTHING out of him if we kept him. Go check the receipts.

Yea you tried to big up McCabe even as he failed miserably in Muzzin's role, leaving us without the matchup pair that dominated tampa's best players the year before.

Its embarassing.