The Mother-fucking goddamn Off-season Thread

[CH1]

Yeah it sounds like it wasn't hockey related or anything related to his performance. Shanny would have said it.

100%…..If Shanny wanted to fire Dubas, he could have cleaned house on Monday and nobody would have batted an eye. This happens all the time when teams continue to disappoint

 

[LeafOfFaith]

Yeah, I wish we had the 8 year deal on the last one, but I'm more than fine with a 5 year deal on this one.

 

[Montana]

And it showed in his personnel decisions leading up to this. He was lost. The pressor only confirmed what many of us have been saying.

…and I don’t mind if people think that. I think he expanded the potential options he’d consider, versus ditching his prior philosophy completely, but ultimately I think you already nailed the biggest issue….not taking the bigger swings now, if they were available, like Ekholm.

The long term vision for the window was the right choice originally….but this deep in, taking some big swings was the smarter play now, imo. Think you nailed that.

 

[LeafOfFaith]

Yeah it sounds like it wasn't hockey related or anything related to his performance. Shanny would have said it.

Yeah, when he went through the timeline, I was actually waiting with baited breath for him to say what he thought about the deadline - and while he wasn't ecstatic about it, he said it was good! I was about to post here then that what else was there to fire him for then, and that's when he started about the press conference and I got riveted.

 

[Montana]

100%…..If Shanny wanted to fire Dubas, he could have cleaned house on Monday and nobody would have batted an eye. This happens all the time when teams continue to disappoint

….also think if his mind changed after considering other options, he shoulda just stuck to that and accepted fully responsibility for the decision.

Sharing the contract counter offer, etc was kinda shit.…and passing the buck.

 

[Montana]

I mean...he's signed for one more season so any deal would be an extension, and he probably has a chronic wrist issue that will come and go but likely never go away. If he wants a 5 year deal so he can re-up at 32 years old instead of us paying him 13 million until he's 35....okay.

addendum accepted.


“…can’t wait to blame Presto, and Mindz for the downfall of our franchise.”

 

[Preston]

…and I don’t mind if people think that. I think he expanded the potential options he’d consider, versus ditching his prior philosophy completely, but ultimately I think you already nailed the biggest issue….not taking the bigger swings now, if they were available, like Ekholm.

The long term vision for the window was the right choice originally….but this deep in, taking some big swings was the smarter play now, imo. Think you nailed that.

It's good to question and challenge yourself and evolve but you can see that Kyle did a bit to much of that in the moves he made imo. By the end he seemed confused, lost and directionless. His original plan was great but he let the lack of results and perhaps media noise shape what he felt would take the team to the next level. And the pressor was just an example of why and how he allowed these things to get in his head. It both surprised me and didn't surprise me because I could see all of that through his moves.

 

[thehabhater]

addendum accepted.


“…can’t wait to blame Presto, and Mindz for the downfall of our franchise.”

A chronic wrist injury is only an issue if you don't have a girlfriend....

 

[CH1]

….also think if his mind changed after considering other options, he shoulda just stuck to that and accepted fully responsibility for the decision.

Sharing the contract counter offer, etc was kinda shit.…and passing the buck.

I see it differently…. Shanny was dealing with Kyle’s agent all along and was surprised with what came out of the presser in terms of Kyle’s own personal commitment going forward.

That provoked a rethink

 

[MindzEye]

It's good to question and challenge yourself and evolve but you can see that Kyle did a bit to much of that in the moves he made imo. By the end he seemed confused, lost and directionless. His original plan was great but he let the lack of results and perhaps media noise shape what he felt would take the team to the next level. And the pressor was just an example of why and how he allowed these things to get in his head. It both surprised me and didn't surprise me because I could see all of that through his moves.

 

[zeke]

well, i've been tracking this for long enough, might as well share it.

I present to you - the Career of Kyle Dubas, GM:

(includes Lou's two years before him, and Kyle comes in at the end of 17-18).

asterisk = ELC





and just looking at starting and finishing rosters:

(two asterisks = UFA)

 

[TheCountofMonteCristo]

What did he win exactly?

a Campbell Conference trophy, he also made the SF, and won two other rounds, so more than Dubas in an overall sense, that said, he is not someone that MLSE would hire so you are safe

 

[zeke]

 

[zeke]

 

[Montana]

I see it differently…. Shanny was dealing with Kyle’s agent all along and was surprised with what came out of the presser in terms of Kyle’s own personal commitment going forward.

That provoked a rethink

…for the post you quoted, my position would be the same in both instances.


Take full responsibility for the decision to can him then, and don’t bring up contract stuff as a deflection to absolve yourself of any blame. If Kyle’s presser change you, say as much, take the decision on fully…and don’t try to spin some of it as Kyle’s fault.



Contrast that with Kyle starting his own presser when asked about Shanny not being there, that he’s the GM, the trade deadline moves etc are all him….he takes full responsibility for it all, and doesn’t need anyone with him to deflect for him.

 

[Volcanologist]

It's funny because one of Shanny's big quotes was "the problem is sticking with the plan in Toronto"

 

[LeafOfFaith]

well, i've been tracking this for long enough, might as well share it.

I present to you - the Career of Kyle Dubas, GM:

(includes Lou's two years before him, and Kyle comes in at the end of 17-18).

asterisk = ELC


View attachment 16509


and just looking at starting and finishing rosters:

(two asterisks = UFA)

View attachment 16510

See, the problem for me was that I liked last year's playoff roster more than this year's. We arguably got worse imo.

 

[MindzEye]

well, i've been tracking this for long enough, might as well share it.

I present to you - the Career of Kyle Dubas, GM:

(includes Lou's two years before him, and Kyle comes in at the end of 17-18).

asterisk = ELC


View attachment 16509


and just looking at starting and finishing rosters:

(two asterisks = UFA)

View attachment 16510

Sure bled a lot of skill without replacing it.

Never really got tough or anything in the process either. Just got worse.

 

[CH1]

…for the post you quoted, my position would be the same in both instances.


Take full responsibility for the decision to can him then, and don’t bring up contract stuff as a deflection to absolve yourself of any blame. If Kyle’s presser change you, say as much, take the decision on fully…and don’t try to spin some of it as Kyle’s fault.



Contrast that with Kyle starting his own presser when asked about Shanny not being there, that he’s the GM, the trade deadline moves etc are all him….he takes full responsibility for it all, and doesn’t need anyone with him to deflect for him.

Obviously, it would have been easier to say something like “we both decided it was best to part ways” but I’m glad he didn’t because that would be super boring and everything we heard today would eventually come out in unreliable dribs and drabs.

I don’t think Shanahan being so forthcoming is a sign of him deflecting. He’a the president and wears the post season failures

 

[worm]

….also think if his mind changed after considering other options, he shoulda just stuck to that and accepted fully responsibility for the decision.

Sharing the contract counter offer, etc was kinda shit.…and passing the buck.

Ya. Especially now because ppl seem to think he asked for waaaay more money.