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The New Division

JaysCyYoung said:
Schneider has posted virtually identical performances to Hasek to date save percentage-wise. For you to make that ludicrous suggestion, Lehner would have to be a .940 goaltender.

So do you consider Robin Lehner a potential candidate for most dominant goalie ever, or not? Own up to your assertion.
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Your argument demonstrates clearly the disease that many of you here are afflicted with. Statsitis. You honestly believe that you can argue through numbers that Schneider and hasek are comparable goalies. Anyone who was alive and who watched both goalies know that is ridiculous. Simply ludicrous. Preposterous. When you're suggesting that a generational, all-time talent is comparable to a guy who has spent most of his career as a backup, outside of a stoppage season, then you're a lunatic.

You descend into full on moron territory when you emphatically ridicule someone who suggests your comparison is wrong.
 
SENSible said:
Jake Gardiner is now officially the most overrated Leaf in the history of this forum and with the ridiculous homers that populate this location, that is a MASSIVE accomplishment.
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Because we're saying that he's better than a #3-4 defender with minimal puck skills, overrated by Hockey Canada because he's a "stay at home" defender?
 
PlayerToBeNamedLater said:
Jake Gardiner is properly rated.

He's a former 1st round pick, who has performed well in a top 4 role, who has top 2 potential.
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He still hasn't played enough to be properly rated. He had a good rookie season, and then followed it up with an injured campaign. I'd put him basically where Reimer was before last season - he has some promise, has shown flashes of solid play, but he's still unproven as a whole.
 
Hockey Canada always brings a couple of one-dimensional, immobile "physical" defenders to the team. It's no surprise that the one time in the last three tournaments that they were given a starting role we struggled to score and didn't place in the medals.
 
theREALkoreaboy said:
Your argument demonstrates clearly the disease that many of you here are afflicted with. Statsitis. You honestly believe that you can argue through numbers that Schneider and hasek are comparable goalies. Anyone who was alive and who watched both goalies know that is ridiculous. Simply ludicrous. Preposterous. When you're suggesting that a generational, all-time talent is comparable to a guy who has spent most of his career as a backup, outside of a stoppage season, then you're a lunatic.

You descend into full on moron territory when you emphatically ridicule someone who suggests your comparison is wrong.
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Because you have no point of comparison. What would quantify in your mind as being "clearly better?" To me that would suggest a .940 save percentage, which is better than Hasek ever managed.

So for you to make that claim is clearly outlandish. Why would you make it? You realize Schneider would qualify for the best save percentage in NHL history if he met the minimum requirement for games played?

You realize that, right?
 
SENSible said:
Jake Gardiner is now officially the most overrated Leaf in the history of this forum and with the ridiculous homers that populate this location, that is a MASSIVE accomplishment.
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Not sure I'd go this far yet, but you might be on to something here. We might be witnessing the birth of yet another in a long, long line of massively overrated and overhyped leaf prospects.
 
KingTucker said:
Maybe. They need to pay their players though, and with Melnyk saying he needs a casino and that he can't pay players five to six million a year because the money isn't there (this has been a sideshow soap opera the past few week/months) it will be interesting to see if they can spend to the $80,000,000 cap that is expected in a year or two.
I do agree that they look good on paper though. I'm not seeing Boston as the be all and and end all anymore, they are a team that looks like ready for a regression and they've come off an absolutely grind of a playoff run in a shortened season. We'll see. TOR-MTL-DET fighting for the top, BOS-OTT afterward and the sunshine belt teams and Buffalo bringing up the rear.

I'm burning to see Bernier in action though, he could be a real sleeper pickup for Nonis that could keep Reimer on his toes.
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a) the cap won't be $80m in a year or two.

b) Melnyk still has money. He's just doing what any business man does...bluff that he needs more government assistance. We saw it in Edmonton too.
 
MindzEye said:
Because we're saying that he's better than a #3-4 defender with minimal puck skills, overrated by Hockey Canada because he's a "stay at home" defender?
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Now that I also agree with. Just because he got an invite to the training camp doesn't mean he's suddenly a God. I mean, surely KB should declare that Kunitz is better than Spezza because Kunitz was invited and Spezza wasn't, right?
 
UWHabs said:
He still hasn't played enough to be properly rated. He had a good rookie season, and then followed it up with an injured campaign. I'd put him basically where Reimer was before last season - he has some promise, has shown flashes of solid play, but he's still unproven as a whole.
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Fair.

With that said, like Reimer, whenever he's been healthy, he's been excellent.
 
theREALkoreaboy said:
Not sure I'd go this far yet, but you might be on to something here. We might be witnessing the birth of yet another in a long, long line of massively overrated and overhyped leaf prospects.
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Patrick Eaves
Jim O'Brien
Alexandre Daigle
Eric Chouinard
Martin Prusek
Karel Rachunek
Simon Lajeneusse

You want to play this game?
 
corksens said:
a) the cap won't be $80m in a year or two.
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I wouldn't bet against that. Back of the napkin math suggests a 70-73 million dollar cap next year. If it's 73, I could easily see 77-78 the year after.

b) Melnyk still has money. He's just doing what any business man does...bluff that he needs more government assistance. We saw it in Edmonton too.
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Yeah, I agree with this, though Ottawa is in the same boat that a bunch of small-mid market teams are in. They're starting to reach the point where their internal budget is going to be lower than the cap every year.
 
UWHabs said:
He still hasn't played enough to be properly rated. He had a good rookie season, and then followed it up with an injured campaign. I'd put him basically where Reimer was before last season - he has some promise, has shown flashes of solid play, but he's still unproven as a whole.
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Gardiner has played close to 100 NHL games and during that time, he has performed a top 4 role at a relatively high level.

Unless this is some sort of fluke, there really isn't much question what kind of role he will perform this coming season.
 
JaysCyYoung said:
Because you have no point of comparison. What would quantify in your mind as being "clearly better?" To me that would suggest a .940 save percentage, which is better than Hasek ever managed.

So for you to make that claim is clearly outlandish. Why would you make it? You realize Schneider would qualify for the best save percentage in NHL history if he met the minimum requirement for games played?

You realize that, right?
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I'm saying your whole argument is nonsensical. Bringing hasek into this discussion is batshit crazy. My statement was,

I think ultimately, within the next 2-3 years, the NHL consensus will be that robin Lehner is a better goalie than Schneider. I think robin Lehner is huge, confident, fiercely competitive, and excellent technically. I think he has all the makings of a star goalie that can play 65+ games as a stud starter and clutch playoff performer. I think that will make him a better goalie than Schneider.
 
theREALkoreaboy said:
Your argument demonstrates clearly the disease that many of you here are afflicted with. Statsitis. You honestly believe that you can argue through numbers that Schneider and hasek are comparable goalies. Anyone who was alive and who watched both goalies know that is ridiculous. Simply ludicrous. Preposterous. When you're suggesting that a generational, all-time talent is comparable to a guy who has spent most of his career as a backup, outside of a stoppage season, then you're a lunatic.

You descend into full on moron territory when you emphatically ridicule someone who suggests your comparison is wrong.
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Not that I agree with Jays' argument (but that's based mostly on sample size and relative quality), but you realize that you're bad mouthing Schneider for being a "career backup" (who of course was only a backup because the starter in Vancouver was a consensus top 5 NHL goalie), when Hasek himself didn't become a starter until he was 27-28 years old, right?
 
theREALkoreaboy said:
I'm saying your whole argument is nonsensical. Bringing hasek into this discussion is batshit crazy. My statement was,

I think ultimately, within the next 2-3 years, the NHL consensus will be that robin Lehner is a better goalie than Schneider. I think robin Lehner is huge, confident, fiercely competitive, and excellent technically. I think he has all the makings of a star goalie that can play 65+ games as a stud starter and clutch playoff performer. I think that will make him a better goalie than Schneider.
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You didn't say that.

You said, and I quote, that Lehner will be "clearly better." You used those two words exactly. Clearly better would mean a substantial advantage in save percentage.

To have a substantial advantage in save percentage, Lehner would be putting up better numbers than Hasek. What don't you get here?
 
MindzEye said:
Not that I agree with Jays' argument (but that's based mostly on sample size and relative quality), but you realize that you're bad mouthing Schneider for being a "career backup" (who of course was only a backup because the starter in Vancouver was a consensus top 5 NHL goalie), when Hasek himself didn't become a starter until he was 27-28 years old, right?
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He was 29 by the time his first Vezina (and full-time starting) campaign ended in 1994 actually.
 
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