The official NFL thread
- Thread starter LeafNation
- Start date
leafman101
Well-known member
I've always seen him as more of a system QB. Play efficiently. Don't make mistakes, and play within the system. As long as he can do that, the Steelers can play their time of possession game, and it works. Maybe he is better than that, but as far as I am concerned he hasn't been able to show it.
LeafNation
New member
First off, Marino didnt start the season that year.. He came in in game 6 of the year.. And even then, he had 20 TD's and 6 INT's compared to Roth's 17 TD's and 11 INT's . And Roth played 3 more games than Marino did.
So of course, the only way you can even bring up anything, it has to be on an uneven playing field.. Nevermind the fact that Roth had a great running game helping him out GREATLY.. Marino never had a 1000 yard back until very late in is career.
Now if you want to bring QB ratings of year 1, well there are quite a few QB's who had better QB ratings that MArino in his very first year when he only played 11 games.. But of course, no one in their right mind would ever put a lot of those QB's in the same sentence with Marino.
Now, let's look at the first FULL year of each QB... Marino had over 5,000 yards and 48 TD's in his first full year, and with a 109 QB rating..
Those are numbers Roth will never EVER come close to approaching. Nevermind all those Marino records.
Now, you admittedly didn't start watching football until recently (relatively speaking). You totally missed Marino's first 10+ seasons as you weren't even a fan of the NFL.
To be honest, I don't even understand why I have to defend Marino to Roethlisberger, of all people.. Not that I think he stinks or anything, he is without a doubt a good QB.. He is a good "system Qb" for his system there, no doubt about it.. But to even try to put him up there with the greatest ever is just ridiculous.
LeafNation
New member
And lastly, before I go out for the evening-- Not only did Marino not have the benefit of a running game, but the rules of Pass interference were TOTALLY different back then..
Back in the early 80's, cornerbacks could drape on a receiver without being called left and right like they do today...
The new rules have GREATLY benefited offense since that early 80's era (and benefited the passing game-- benefits Marino didn't have)... That is Huge.. And if you ignore that fact, then you are obviously biased. Plain and simple.
When Marino came into the league, he took the NFL world by Storm.. He totally changed how defenses play against the pass. The guy actually had an affect on the game itself (and it's strategy).. What you oughta do is listen to the great mastermind Bill Walsh and what he said about that... Listen to what he said about Marino changing the strategy of defensive co-ordinators around the league in defending the pass.
He changed the game similar to the affect Lawrence Taylor had on offenses, changing the way offenses have to account for a pass rusher like that from the LB position..... Roethlisberger will never have an effect on the game like that.. Not in his rookie year, not ever.
Back in the early 80's, cornerbacks could drape on a receiver without being called left and right like they do today...
The new rules have GREATLY benefited offense since that early 80's era (and benefited the passing game-- benefits Marino didn't have)... That is Huge.. And if you ignore that fact, then you are obviously biased. Plain and simple.
When Marino came into the league, he took the NFL world by Storm.. He totally changed how defenses play against the pass. The guy actually had an affect on the game itself (and it's strategy).. What you oughta do is listen to the great mastermind Bill Walsh and what he said about that... Listen to what he said about Marino changing the strategy of defensive co-ordinators around the league in defending the pass.
He changed the game similar to the affect Lawrence Taylor had on offenses, changing the way offenses have to account for a pass rusher like that from the LB position..... Roethlisberger will never have an effect on the game like that.. Not in his rookie year, not ever.
Last edited:
mbow30
Spudmeister Supreme
i didn't compare him to dilfer. but the if the argument is that eli manning is a top qb because he won the super bowl... well, dilfer's a name that has to be entered into that discussion.
there is no doubt that eli manning has loads of potential. he obviously will never be great like his brother, but certainly to be a top-10 QB in this league. but he hasn't done it yet, and winning the super bowl doesnt' mean he's done it--because plenty of mediocre qb's have been to or won the big game.
mbow30
Spudmeister Supreme
the thing with roethlisberger that i like is that he has shown an ability to step up and make plays when he can't just fall back on the system.
Garrard is more of a bus driver than the guy with the long name
leaffan2005
Well-known member
Ben's really tough to sack, and like you say, he is very good at "creating" when the play falls apart and rarely makes any brain cramps that cost his team. Very smart, efficient QB with a huge arm to boot.
The Steelers will always be a run-first team, but it would be nice to see them play a more wide-open passing game, because they certainly have the personel to put forth a New Orleans style offense on the field any given Sunday if they wanted. Mendenhall and Smeed especially give them a lot of athleticism and flash, and are nice compliments to Holmes and Parker. Ward has declined over the years, but is still a sure catch, and they have a big sure-handed tight end in Heath Miller who is a nice red-zone target.
Very well-built team, the Steelers, imo.
The Steelers will always be a run-first team, but it would be nice to see them play a more wide-open passing game, because they certainly have the personel to put forth a New Orleans style offense on the field any given Sunday if they wanted. Mendenhall and Smeed especially give them a lot of athleticism and flash, and are nice compliments to Holmes and Parker. Ward has declined over the years, but is still a sure catch, and they have a big sure-handed tight end in Heath Miller who is a nice red-zone target.
Very well-built team, the Steelers, imo.
blkngldbabe
Well-known member
I think 18 years is a decent length of time following a sport...maybe not.
Big Ben came in to a team coming off of a 6-10 record with a pretty shoddy O-line. Marino came to a team that just lost the Superbowl. No wonder he didn't play until the sixth week. ANyhoo...I wasn't hoping to revisit your love fest for Marino in any way shape or form. Hence I'm not going to get goaded into further back and forth (no, not because I'm conceding just because it's old and tired and doesn't need to be brought back IMO)
Everyone gets excited about their team and it's prospects but before you flay someone else for having a differing opine remember that YOU aren't always right. ie.You thought that FUmblepepper was going to bring a Saban led Phins team to the promised land, stealing the division from the Pats. We all have moments of misguided optimism. Try not to dwell on four years prior. Not all prognostications were spot on...or even close for that matter. Its for fun right? Thats why we aren't in sports for a living.
Big Ben came in to a team coming off of a 6-10 record with a pretty shoddy O-line. Marino came to a team that just lost the Superbowl. No wonder he didn't play until the sixth week. ANyhoo...I wasn't hoping to revisit your love fest for Marino in any way shape or form. Hence I'm not going to get goaded into further back and forth (no, not because I'm conceding just because it's old and tired and doesn't need to be brought back IMO)
Everyone gets excited about their team and it's prospects but before you flay someone else for having a differing opine remember that YOU aren't always right. ie.You thought that FUmblepepper was going to bring a Saban led Phins team to the promised land, stealing the division from the Pats. We all have moments of misguided optimism. Try not to dwell on four years prior. Not all prognostications were spot on...or even close for that matter. Its for fun right? Thats why we aren't in sports for a living.
LeafNation
New member
Not long enough to watch Marino play in the first half of his career.
That's pretty weak considering it's customary to ease in a rookie QB.. Nevermind the fact that Marino was younger than Roethlisberger when they both started their first game
. Of course that fact goes right over your head and your bias... But like you said, no sense in discussing this any longer because comparing the two is ridiculous.. If you'd like to, that's fine. I could easily show you some articles from coaches in that era stating emphatically how Marino revolutionized how defenses defend against the pass -- Since you weren't following the game at that time maybe you can learn something .. Comparing Roth with Marino ? LMAO.. Get real babe.. Forget Marino, there are a plethora of QB's I would take over Roethlisberger.. Dan Fouts for one.. Let's start with Fouts and a boatload of other QB's before Marino even gets brought up when you try to put Roethlisberger in the same sentence with others..
Oh nobody's always right. Including me.. But by the same token, trying to compare Roethlisberger to Marino is absolutely ridiculous... All because every Steeler fan and their mother wished they drafted Marino (since he's from Pittsburgh) with all those crappy and pathetic QB's you had during Marino's career, doesn't mean you can make such ridiculous comments...
yes, Not only did Miami have bad team doctors saying his knee was ok, but the biggest mistake of this decade was deciding on Cpep over Brees when both were available ( if you remember, I wanted Brees).
Okay, now you're talking about two totally different things.. What Marino and Roth did ALREADY happened.. It has nothing to do with prognostications on the future.. It does not require guess work.. But I guess you were desperate to change the subject.
Yes it is for fun.. But god forbid if anyone says anything negative about a Steeler player.. God forbid, or you lose it.... Hell, I posted a video of the Steelers winning the super bowl in the 70's earlier saying they were a damn good team.. And you come in here with all kinds of sports Illustrated links and long posts going whole hog (since you are so insecure with your team), as if I was trying to diminish their success in the 70's with that comment.
I mean, get real man.. It's rather comical how you fly off the handle over nothing. I mean, you even flew off at someone POSTING a Pitt super bowl game and victory.. Unbelievable.. :cheers2:
Last edited:
LeafNation
New member
Brees or not, I find it very encouraging that Miami held New Orleans to only 99 total net yards through the entire game.. I don't care if it's preseason or not, to hold a team to less than 100 total yards through 4 quarters of play is something
http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/boxscore?game_id=29840&displayPage=tab_box_score&season=2008&week=PRE4
As I say that, watch them give up 400 in week 1.. lol
http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/boxscore?game_id=29840&displayPage=tab_box_score&season=2008&week=PRE4
As I say that, watch them give up 400 in week 1.. lol
LeafNation
New member
Last night Ronnie had glimpses of Ronnie before the ACL injury when he led the league in total yards from scrimmage last year.. He showed some good explosiveness and burst....
At the time of his injury in week 7, Ronnie Brown led the league in total yards with 991, at over 5 yards per carry.. All with a subpar offensive line.. He is a beast.. He and Ricky should be a heck of a combo in the backfield.
I just wish we had one more good receiver to spread the field so defenses can't play "8 in the box".. Either way though, they should be a great combo of power in the backfield.. Back in 2005 when both were in the lineup, the fins ran off 6 wins in a row on the backs of Ronnie and Ricky in the backfield.. Those 2 just carried the team by themselves... The key is health though.. HEALTH HEALTH HEALTH.. And MORE health.. Just please be healthy all season, to those 2.
At the time of his injury in week 7, Ronnie Brown led the league in total yards with 991, at over 5 yards per carry.. All with a subpar offensive line.. He is a beast.. He and Ricky should be a heck of a combo in the backfield.
I just wish we had one more good receiver to spread the field so defenses can't play "8 in the box".. Either way though, they should be a great combo of power in the backfield.. Back in 2005 when both were in the lineup, the fins ran off 6 wins in a row on the backs of Ronnie and Ricky in the backfield.. Those 2 just carried the team by themselves... The key is health though.. HEALTH HEALTH HEALTH.. And MORE health.. Just please be healthy all season, to those 2.
Last edited:
blkngldbabe
Well-known member
LOL...nobody's mad Muffin. I was teasing by pointing out we were GREAT and you said Really good. I don't see how that is flying off the handle *shrug* :smile(21):
LeafNation
New member
How bout this.. I predict the Steelers will win their division and make it to the AFC championship game.. Depending on health, as health is HUGE, I can't predict more than that.. And I have some questions regarding their defense, but I think they can pull it together.
Fair enough ?
Fair enough ?
LeafNation
New member
Absolute BEAST !
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ifs72pD3Qfg
That's a one-man wrecking crew.
Please keep that knee healthy.. Whatever it takes.. Bathe it in Holy water, whatever you gotta do.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ifs72pD3Qfg
That's a one-man wrecking crew.
Please keep that knee healthy.. Whatever it takes.. Bathe it in Holy water, whatever you gotta do.
blkngldbabe
Well-known member
That is more than fair. I see us taking our division an making the playoffs and depending on O-line health, how far we go from there. The D isn't a concern of mine at all this season unless Aaron Smith goes down again. Our D will be stronger than last year due to the subtraction of Haggans plus the addition Woodley and Timmons fulltime (Timmons only until Foote is back but I predict him starting full time by week 6) IT's going to be fast. I think even you will be impressed. Im' not sold on the O-line though. Ben was on his back 47 times last season. Luckily he is fairly durable and hard to take down. Half were his issue and the rest split between piss poor O-line play and bad route running by the WR's.
I'm excited to see your boy Long in action. Speaking of Beast. Henne must have pee'd a little when he realized that he'd be blocking for him in the Pro's too. Very nice. I'd be thrilled if anyone can make your division more of a contest. Patriots running away with it every year is sad considering some of the talent over there. Good luck! I'd love to see the "kings" fall.
LeafNation
New member
Steelers will be fine.. Totally fine.. The only thing that could hold them back is getting the injury bug.. I KNOW ALL ABOUT how injuries can totally decimate a team. For christs sakes right at the beginning of the season last year we had devastating injuries at key positions right out of the gate.. And it was a downward spiral of injuries all through the season. By the end of the season we were down to our 4th running back, 4th DT, 5th G, 4th LB , 4th corner, and 6th safety starting (as just a few examples).. lol, it was pathetic.. Thank god Parcells instituted a rigorous offseason training program this year to limit injuries.
If the Steelers are rolling on all cylinders, and healthy through the season, they should be just fine imo.
Yup, we finally got our future young QB after Marino.. You have no idea how painful it was to watch the last decade of crappy QB's after watching the brilliance of Marino for 17 years.. Or maybe you do with Mark Malone, Tommy Maddox and Kordell Stewart in Pitt for all those years, heh. :thumbsup(22):
blkngldbabe
Well-known member
Ewww.... Maddox...Don't forget Brister. Stewart could have been decent if he actually watched some game film and was a little more studious at his position. Sadly it wasn't to be. Such is life. I hope Henne is all you expect of him and turns that team around with some help from his friends.
LeafNation
New member
Gholston seems to be struggling against scrubs-
http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/f...rnon_gholston_no_1_disappointment_for_-2.html
While you guys picked him as a "project" player, I am against picking a project in the top 10 of the draft.. It turns out being a bad idea more often than not... I always believed that when you pick top 10 in the draft, the player better be as sure a thing as possible-- An unquestionable difference maker. Especially in the NFL draft.
Last edited: