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Leaf Rumours

Look, I'm no Phaneuf basher. He's a big, tough and mobile true #1 defenseman that we can continually throw out there with confidence against the other team's best offensive players night after night. We can also count on him to give us some offense too. But I also know what my eyes tell me, and none of our power-play pointmen blast the puck high and/or wide of the net more often that Phaneuf does. His big wind-up also results in his shots getting blocked or deflected wide a lot more often as well.

Franson, on the other hand, has a much quicker release and a low, hard shot that gets through to the net a lot more often than Phaneuf's does. I couldn't find any stats on power-play shots on goal, but I wouldn't be surprised if Franson had more than Phaneuf even with significantly less time on the power-play. I do know that last year, with Phaneuf receiving an average of 3:24 per game on the PP and Franson getting an average of 2:49, they both ended up with three power-play goals and Franson had 10 power-play assists to Dion's 13.
 
Franson has a strange half-slapper that always seems to find its way through and is a big weapon on the PP. With consistent PP time and a partner like Gardiner beside him, it wouldn't surprise me to see Franson usurp Dion in PP points.
 
leaffan2005 said:
Franson has a strange half-slapper that always seems to find its way through and is a big weapon on the PP. With consistent PP time and a partner like Gardiner beside him, it wouldn't surprise me to see Franson usurp Dion in PP points.
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Even if he was slightly better on the PP, Dion is as good on the PK as he is on the PP, and as good 5 on 5 as he is at either of those. If you're not going to use Phaneuf on the PP, you may as well trade him and I'd much rather keep Dion than Cody.
 
MindzEye said:
Even if he was slightly better on the PP, Dion is as good on the PK as he is on the PP, and as good 5 on 5 as he is at either of those. If you're not going to use Phaneuf on the PP, you may as well trade him and I'd much rather keep Dion than Cody.
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Not sure I get this statement. The guys chews up a ton of very tough and important minutes 5-5 and on the PK. He's definitely worth keeping around, even if he's not on the first power-play unit all the time by default. This is just the reality of the Leafs' situation, and nothing against Phaneuf. We've got a good problem, which is an over-abundance of defensemen that deserve a lot of PP time. Phaneuf, Franson, Gardiner and Liles, in theory...and now Rielly is potentially getting thrown into that mix as well.
 
LeafGm said:
Not sure I get this statement. The guys chews up a ton of very tough and important minutes 5-5 and on the PK. He's definitely worth keeping around, even if he's not on the first power-play unit all the time by default. This is just the reality of the Leafs' situation, and nothing against Phaneuf. We've got a good problem, which is an over-abundance of defensemen that deserve a lot of PP time. Phaneuf, Franson, Gardiner and Liles, in theory...and now Rielly is potentially getting thrown into that mix as well.
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Phaneuf is going to cost somewhere around 6.5-7.0 million dollars on his next contract. If you're not getting 40-50+ points out of him because you're not using him in every major situation as your #1 defender, there are much better ways to allocate that cap space. Which of course would be silly as finding an all purpose #1 defender is very difficult. So for the sake of being very, very slightly better in one of those situations, it just doesn't make sense.
 
This is what Rielly actually said:

“I have a lot to prove still .I am not too comfortable just yet with playing pro hockey. I think it is a gradual process. But each day that goes by, I think I am improving.”

****ing Toronto media hacks.
 
Hoss said:
If this is true, and I haven't read it so it probably is an article about he's not ready for owning a dog or something... but it he feels he isn't ready then I really want Franson back.
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Yeah, never trust a headline from a tabloid rag. This is the closest Rielly comes to saying what the headline says:

“I have a lot to prove still,” Rielly said after scoring a goal in the Leafs’ first true scrimmage at the MasterCard Centre on Saturday.

“I am not too comfortable just yet with playing pro hockey. I think it is a gradual process. But each day that goes by, I think I am improving.”
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LeafGm said:
Look, I'm no Phaneuf basher. He's a big, tough and mobile true #1 defenseman that we can continually throw out there with confidence against the other team's best offensive players night after night. We can also count on him to give us some offense too. But I also know what my eyes tell me, and none of our power-play pointmen blast the puck high and/or wide of the net more often that Phaneuf does. His big wind-up also results in his shots getting blocked or deflected wide a lot more often as well.

Franson, on the other hand, has a much quicker release and a low, hard shot that gets through to the net a lot more often than Phaneuf's does. I couldn't find any stats on power-play shots on goal, but I wouldn't be surprised if Franson had more than Phaneuf even with significantly less time on the power-play. I do know that last year, with Phaneuf receiving an average of 3:24 per game on the PP and Franson getting an average of 2:49, they both ended up with three power-play goals and Franson had 10 power-play assists to Dion's 13.
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First I want to say that I'd bet the new stick doesn't help some of these guys with their accuracy, and the way they curve their blades can really kill it as well. Having said that, it seems like Phaneuf just winds up and blast it, Franson picks a spot.
 
MindzEye said:
Phaneuf is going to cost somewhere around 6.5-7.0 million dollars on his next contract. If you're not getting 40-50+ points out of him because you're not using him in every major situation as your #1 defender, there are much better ways to allocate that cap space. Which of course would be silly as finding an all purpose #1 defender is very difficult. So for the sake of being very, very slightly better in one of those situations, it just doesn't make sense.
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If you can find someone else to play the minutes Dion does five-on-five and on the PK for significantly less than $6.5M, then I'm all ears.

With the depth of highly skilled defensemen we have on our roster, it'd be a pretty foolish coaching strategy to automatically make any of them your first PP option because of how much they make, or because they've got a letter on their chest. Even forgetting Cody Franson for a moment, if hypothetically, Carlyle throws Rielly and Gardiner out there for some 2nd unit PP duty and they're dynamite, does he have to keep putting Dion out there first because we're paying him a lot of money?

Results should = playing time on the PP. And Franson pretty much matched Dion's PP totals last season, despite playing fewer games and Dion having a 30 second/game advantage in power-play playing time. If we get him back under contract and that continues this year, then I don't see how you don't give him a greater opportunity.
 
no, you keep playing phaneuf because he has been an elite goal scoring defenceman for his entire career.
 
mbow30 said:
no, you keep playing phaneuf because he has been an elite goal scoring defenceman for his entire career.
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So, no matter what any of the other defensemen do, you keep sending Dion Phaneuf out there first. 'cause.

I'm glad you're not the coach.
 
LeafGm said:
If you can find someone else to play the minutes Dion does five-on-five and on the PK for significantly less than $6.5M, then I'm all ears.

With the depth of highly skilled defensemen we have on our roster, it'd be a pretty foolish coaching strategy to automatically make any of them your first PP option because of how much they make, or because they've got a letter on their chest. Even forgetting Cody Franson for a moment, if hypothetically, Carlyle throws Rielly and Gardiner out there for some 2nd unit PP duty and they're dynamite, does he have to keep putting Dion out there first because we're paying him a lot of money?

Results should = playing time on the PP. And Franson pretty much matched Dion's PP totals last season, despite playing fewer games and Dion having a 30 second/game advantage in power-play playing time. If we get him back under contract and that continues this year, then I don't see how you don't give him a greater opportunity.
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Results do equal playing time, and Dion Phaneuf is our best defender. Replacing him is ridiculously hard, full stop. Is being very, very slightly better on the PP worth jettisoning Phaneuf from the lineup entirely? I'm going to go with no. Phaneuf has consistently been one of the top offensive defenders in the NHL for the last 7-8 years now, I don't know how much stock I would put in one short stint from anyone almost matching his output.
 
MindzEye said:
Results do equal playing time, and Dion Phaneuf is our best defender. Replacing him is ridiculously hard, full stop. Is being very, very slightly better on the PP worth jettisoning Phaneuf from the lineup entirely? I'm going to go with no. Phaneuf has consistently been one of the top offensive defenders in the NHL for the last 7-8 years now, I don't know how much stock I would put in one short stint from anyone almost matching his output.
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The only one talking about jettisoning him from the lineup entirely is you.
 
MindzEye said:
Even if he was slightly better on the PP, Dion is as good on the PK as he is on the PP, and as good 5 on 5 as he is at either of those. If you're not going to use Phaneuf on the PP, you may as well trade him and I'd much rather keep Dion than Cody.
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To be clear I have not said that I believe Franson is more valuable than Phaneuf. On the PP, I believe Franson has a more effective shot from the point. Dion moves the puck a lot better and is a lot more effective 5 on 5 and on the PK. His stabilizing force and multi-dimensional talents is why you keep him as the #1 for the long haul. But this does not diminish the contributions of Cody Franson.
 
LeafGm said:
So, no matter what any of the other defensemen do, you keep sending Dion Phaneuf out there first. 'cause.

I'm glad you're not the coach.
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you're being unreasonable. one guy in the world has more powerplay goals over the past 8 years than phaneuf.

if somebody proves he's better than phaneuf, of course you play him.

the point is this: few guys are going to prove themselves to be better than phaneuf at what he does. and nobody on the roster right now has his point shot. certainly not the 26 year old with 243 games under his belt, who has as many pp goals on his career as about what phaneuf scores in a season.

the myths around phaneuf's shot are crazy. dude takes 200 shots a year. he is one of the best in the world at getting his shots through, nad has one of the best point shots in the league.
 
Phaneuf flat out has one of the best PP weapons in the game. He is right up there with Weber, Chara, Subban, MacInnis. and He doesn't miss the net any more than those guys do/did. Cody Frason's shot isn't even in Phaneuf's league.

Dion Phaneuf is an elite PP triggerman. No coach is ever going to take him off the numbe 1 unit. Especially for a guy like Franson. Like I said before only Chara has more PP goals than Phaneuf since he entered the league, and barely. Chara isn't a better PP triggerman than him. Subban isn't. Weber isn't. And if those guys aren't, Cody Franson certainly isn;t.

Even if you are right in suggesting that Franson's shot hits the net more, Phaneufs shot hits the back of the net more. And that is all that matters.
 
leaffan2005 said:
To be clear I have not said that I believe Franson is more valuable than Phaneuf. On the PP, I believe Franson has a more effective shot from the point. Dion moves the puck a lot better and is a lot more effective 5 on 5 and on the PK. His stabilizing force and multi-dimensional talents is why you keep him as the #1 for the long haul. But this does not diminish the contributions of Cody Franson.
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No one is diminishing the value of Cody Franson. Some people are just inflating it to an elite level for some weird reason.
 
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