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2021 Hurricanes Post Season/Summer Thread

Habsy

Yes, I'm kidding people.
Staff member
I'm not sure I can.. But I believe that the Borg views Ned as Matt Murray a couple years ago. Great run not a goalie to be trusted..
Mrazek vs Andersen? /shrug.. I guess but I would have preferred the devil we knew.. (Mrazek)
Injuries
 

cmaleski2

Well-known member
I know I posted this somewhere else, but what Toronto fans seem to fail to grasp is that Mrazek was teetering on the edge of being out of the NHL after a disaster of a partial season in Philly, which had followed a bad full season in Detroit. For the Canes he had a good first season, a not so great 2nd season and then was hurt most of last season (no fault of his own of course).

I suspect playing behind the Canes and Brindy's system possibly saved Mrazek's NHL career. I know most Leafs fans are just happy its someone other than Freddie, but my opinion is Mrazek owes a whole lot to the Canes for saving his career and for the deal he signed in Toronto. I don't think its going to go well for Mrazek there, not well at all.

I believe I ended that thought in my other post with my opinion that the odds of Freddie being Good to Very Good for the Canes are much higher than the odds of Mrazek being Good to Very Good for the Leafs. I really believe that. Just about every goalie has looked great playing for the Canes since Brind'Amour took over except for Scott Darling before we pulled the plug on him. I think the Leafs are much better defensively now than they were a few years ago, but I still think that Mrazek is going to get exposed more often and the Leafs fans are going to turn on him quickly when they watch how Boston toys with him by getting him to overcommit.
 

andyt

Canes Moderator
Staff member
You can make the same point about Ned. He had 1 decent season in Charlotte but was ordinary for the rest of his time in the minors. Did he suddenly morph into the 2nd coming of Georges Vezina? Or did playing behind the Canes defense have anything to do with it?
 

CanadaCanes

Well-known member
You can make the same point about Ned. He had 1 decent season in Charlotte but was ordinary for the rest of his time in the minors. Did he suddenly morph into the 2nd coming of Georges Vezina? Or did playing behind the Canes defense have anything to do with it?
Ned is certainly going to get exposed with that defense in Detroit.
 

andyt

Canes Moderator
Staff member
Included KK?
Dunno. But if the Habs don’t match, he has 3 weeks before camp If he isn’t.

I guess we’ll also get a real world stress test on the efficacy of the Astra Zeneca vaccine in the country with the worst Delta outbreak.
 

andyt

Canes Moderator
Staff member
Today, Corey Pronman at The Athletic has a list of players 23 and younger who are already playing or who have a chance to play in the NHL. There are 194 players on the list, broken up into 7 tiers. The Canes have a handful on the list. As you would expect, Svech is the highest ranked, 2nd overall behind Cale Makar, the only 2 on the list in the top tier. Necas is 19, Jarvis 41, KK 62, Bokk 101, Suzuki 158, Rees 184, Gunler 188, Robidas 190.

 

hockeylover

Well-known member
I know I posted this somewhere else, but what Toronto fans seem to fail to grasp is that Mrazek was teetering on the edge of being out of the NHL after a disaster of a partial season in Philly, which had followed a bad full season in Detroit. For the Canes he had a good first season, a not so great 2nd season and then was hurt most of last season (no fault of his own of course).

I suspect playing behind the Canes and Brindy's system possibly saved Mrazek's NHL career. I know most Leafs fans are just happy its someone other than Freddie, but my opinion is Mrazek owes a whole lot to the Canes for saving his career and for the deal he signed in Toronto. I don't think its going to go well for Mrazek there, not well at all.

I believe I ended that thought in my other post with my opinion that the odds of Freddie being Good to Very Good for the Canes are much higher than the odds of Mrazek being Good to Very Good for the Leafs. I really believe that. Just about every goalie has looked great playing for the Canes since Brind'Amour took over except for Scott Darling before we pulled the plug on him. I think the Leafs are much better defensively now than they were a few years ago, but I still think that Mrazek is going to get exposed more often and the Leafs fans are going to turn on him quickly when they watch how Boston toys with him by getting him to overcommit.

I mean, most of us said it when you came over to our board saying this - I think you’ve got this idea of our expectations of Mrazek that is totally wrong. Almost everyone is just talking improvement relative to the .895 we got for 24 games last year.
 

cmaleski2

Well-known member
I mean, most of us said it when you came over to our board saying this - I think you’ve got this idea of our expectations of Mrazek that is totally wrong. Almost everyone is just talking improvement relative to the .895 we got for 24 games last year.
Mrazek will most likely give you better than that, but there seems to be narrative that Mrazek is better than the .905 goalie he has been in the regular season over the last 5 years (he's really not) or the .901 goalie he has been in the playoffs over the last few years (which of course is not good at all). I know about Freddie Andersen's warts (especially the penchant for untimely bad goals in the playoffs), but until last season, he was consistently putting up better Sv% numbers than Mrazek (even the season prior to this past one) and that is even more so in the playoffs.

Lots of people seem to be slamming the Canes for completely changing their goaltending, but then missing the part where Mrazek really wasn't that good in the playoffs and had a Meh season in year 2. Then those folks slamming the Canes goaltending moves double down on letting Nedelkjovic go, a goalie who was not very good for quite a while, suddenly had one good short season run, effectively blew game 1 in Round 2 of the playoffs with an inexcusable 3rd period goal and came back at the Canes asking for $3.5 million per like he was some sort of sure thing 1B split goalie.

The Canes elected to move on from Mrazek and the complete unknown that was Ned (and Reimer as a backup) and brought in 2 vets for the same money. One of those vets had a bad but injury plagued season (Andersen) and the other of course is just injury prone (Raanta). I have no idea how that will work out, but just about every goalie the Canes bring in does better than they did the seasons before they got here (save for Scott Darling, which was just a disaster from the get go).

My points are simply:

Petr Mrazek is an average NHL goalie who by no means is a certainty to be any better than Freddie Andersen in any given season.

Freddie Andersen had a bad season last year, but the reality is that season was an outlier to his career numbers (yeah he could be done, but that isn't a certainty).

The Nedeljkovic decision cannot really be fairly evaluated until he plays this season. Lots of folks seem absolutely certain that the Canes just let a great goalie go for nothing. Well they waived him multiple times and no one claimed him, and for the CANES to pay him $3+ million for 23 regular season games with great numbers played against just 7 other teams, not knowing if he is really that great goalie or the guy who looked average for his entire career up to that point, was something they didn't feel was the right move. (Detroit can take that chance and pay that money, they are not a Cup contender at the moment).

The Leafs HAD to move on from Freddie Andersen (no doubt)


It seems that some on the Leafs board are convinced that every move the Canes make is a bad one. At some point, yes, you have to think some of these really bold/against the grain moves will bite us in the ass. But the Canes have 3 straight trips to the playoffs and 4 series wins. They have jettisoned players like Jeff Skinner and Justin Faulk right before those players were way overpaid elsewhere. They elected not to pay Dougie big bucks well into his 30s (I suspect 'playoff Dougie' was a big factor in that decision). They elected to change their goalie mix.

No one knows how this all shakes out in the end. We will see. But what I do know is that until this group in the Canes front office finally has a season where they 'got it all wrong', its a bit over the top to call any Canes offseason a bad one. And I'm pretty confident that the Leafs goaltending situation going into this season is not really a sure fire .910-.915 because Mrazek is in and Freddie is out.
 

Habsy

Yes, I'm kidding people.
Staff member
Mrazek will most likely give you better than that, but there seems to be narrative that Mrazek is better than the .905 goalie he has been in the regular season over the last 5 years (he's really not) or the .901 goalie he has been in the playoffs over the last few years (which of course is not good at all). I know about Freddie Andersen's warts (especially the penchant for untimely bad goals in the playoffs), but until last season, he was consistently putting up better Sv% numbers than Mrazek (even the season prior to this past one) and that is even more so in the playoffs.

Lots of people seem to be slamming the Canes for completely changing their goaltending, but then missing the part where Mrazek really wasn't that good in the playoffs and had a Meh season in year 2. Then those folks slamming the Canes goaltending moves double down on letting Nedelkjovic go, a goalie who was not very good for quite a while, suddenly had one good short season run, effectively blew game 1 in Round 2 of the playoffs with an inexcusable 3rd period goal and came back at the Canes asking for $3.5 million per like he was some sort of sure thing 1B split goalie.

The Canes elected to move on from Mrazek and the complete unknown that was Ned (and Reimer as a backup) and brought in 2 vets for the same money. One of those vets had a bad but injury plagued season (Andersen) and the other of course is just injury prone (Raanta). I have no idea how that will work out, but just about every goalie the Canes bring in does better than they did the seasons before they got here (save for Scott Darling, which was just a disaster from the get go).

My points are simply:

Petr Mrazek is an average NHL goalie who by no means is a certainty to be any better than Freddie Andersen in any given season.

Freddie Andersen had a bad season last year, but the reality is that season was an outlier to his career numbers (yeah he could be done, but that isn't a certainty).

The Nedeljkovic decision cannot really be fairly evaluated until he plays this season. Lots of folks seem absolutely certain that the Canes just let a great goalie go for nothing. Well they waived him multiple times and no one claimed him, and for the CANES to pay him $3+ million for 23 regular season games with great numbers played against just 7 other teams, not knowing if he is really that great goalie or the guy who looked average for his entire career up to that point, was something they didn't feel was the right move. (Detroit can take that chance and pay that money, they are not a Cup contender at the moment).

The Leafs HAD to move on from Freddie Andersen (no doubt)


It seems that some on the Leafs board are convinced that every move the Canes make is a bad one. At some point, yes, you have to think some of these really bold/against the grain moves will bite us in the ass. But the Canes have 3 straight trips to the playoffs and 4 series wins. They have jettisoned players like Jeff Skinner and Justin Faulk right before those players were way overpaid elsewhere. They elected not to pay Dougie big bucks well into his 30s (I suspect 'playoff Dougie' was a big factor in that decision). They elected to change their goalie mix.

No one knows how this all shakes out in the end. We will see. But what I do know is that until this group in the Canes front office finally has a season where they 'got it all wrong', its a bit over the top to call any Canes offseason a bad one. And I'm pretty confident that the Leafs goaltending situation going into this season is not really a sure fire .910-.915 because Mrazek is in and Freddie is out.
Agree with you on almost everything. Leafs didn't have to move on from Andersen. They chose to.
 

Paulie Walnuts

Well-known member
Toronto fans seem to be very similar to fans of red around here. But at least they won something in 1987. which is better than 1966
 

Paulie Walnuts

Well-known member
easy trivia - how many Canes players or coaches were alive in 1967? Zero - Jeff Daniels is closest born in 1968. RBA born 1970. Waddell was 9 years old in 67
 

CanadaCanes

Well-known member
Agree with you on almost everything. Leafs didn't have to move on from Andersen. They chose to.
I think the Leafs would have been better off with Ned playing behind or in tandem with Campbell who by all accounts will be given a chance to be the lead dog in net. For a team that needs to squeeze just about every dollar with their cap crunch, Ned would have been a cheaper option with just as much of a chance to provide a tandem role as Mrazek with more long term upside. I agree with CMal, Mrazek is an average goalie that seemed to do very well with that new contract both in dollars and term that I do not think will live up to the hype.
 

Habsy

Yes, I'm kidding people.
Staff member
I was never sold on Ned. Has flash in the pan written on him kinda like Jonas Gustavsson.
 

andyt

Canes Moderator
Staff member
I was never sold in Ned. Jag flash in the pan written on him kinda like Jonas Gustavsson.
Which puts you in the distinct minority of outside observers. Yes he was a Calder finalist, yes he had a great season. But to somehow extrapolate that into the 2nd coming of Georges Vezina requires a superhuman leap of faith, one that almost all who followed the team since he’s been in the organization weren’t willing to take.
 

Habsy

Yes, I'm kidding people.
Staff member
Sure, that's all great but I think I went to high school with him. Late bloomers rarely pan out. Even Binnington is struggling now. Once enough tape is out other teams will figure Ned out quickly IMHO.
 

cmaleski2

Well-known member
Its just been crazy to me how many Canes fans and non-followers have been willing to rip the Canes for not being willing to give Ned a multi year deal for more than $3 million per like he was a definitive solution in goal, a "no doubter" that you turn over the keys to this Cup contender to and know you can rely on.

I know we talked about it a few times here now, but again, the Canes have a very simple and clear message to all of our RFAs and pending UFAs. The Canes (Dundon/Waddell/Tulsky) have a value assigned to everyone that rolls through this organization. If you want to continue to play for the Carolina Hurricanes, that value is going to set the salaries that the Canes might be willing to pay you. If your agent comes in 'hot' when sitting down to discuss terms of an extension (ie Ned at 2 years $7 million, with the threat of arbitration being used), or if you are Elias Lindholm or Noah Hanifin asking for $5 million per on a long term deal (Lindholm has overplayed that contract for the Flames, Hanifin not so much) or Dougie at $9 million per (what was his lowest number to stay with the Canes?). Bottom line is that the Canes just are not going to overpay what they think a player's value is. (KK and that offer sheet are not in that same realm, a successful offer sheet MUST be an overpay to work, and note its a 1 year overpay (ignore all of the nonsense about setting QO floors, that is playing checkers and not chess)).

The media and some fans spin all that 'cheap', but 'cheap' would do what the Canes do AND be 5-15 million under the cap. The Canes are not cheap, they are being strategic about their spending. EVERY team in the NHL does that. But when the CANES do it, well, they are cheap, or stupid or both. "Dundon is calling all the shots and running the team into the ground" so we are told (3 straight trips to the playoffs, 4 series wins). Dougie Hamilton is the guy you should give every penny do, the Canes are stupid not to have done so (umm...playoff Dougie?) Freddie Andersen sucks, how could the Canes blow up their goaltending?

Again at some point the Canes will 'get it all wrong', and the naysayers will finally get their due. But we've heard from many of these same folks before, be it trading Skinner for picks and Pu, or trading Justin Faulk away for Joel Edmunson and a prospect. Or trading away 2 former 5th overall picks in Lindholm and Hanifin for Dougie, a 3rd line grinder, and Adam Fox (who we were able to turn into Jamieson Rees, Antonni Honka and Noel Gunler). Canes seem to somehow get most of these moves right. Unconventional? Yep. Clueless, stupid, and "dumpster fire offseason"? Sure, could end up that way, but this group seems to be getting it right most of the time, even when its might look like an unusual approach.
 
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