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Around The League: 2016-17 Playoffs

Re: Around The League: 2014 - 2015 Season

BKerr said:
Exactly.

He's very similar to Patrick Kane, imo.....

Kessel is surrounded by Bozak, JVR, Lupul, Dion Phaneuf, Kadri.
Patrick Kane has.... a true number 1 guy and leader in Toews, plus he has Sharp, Hossa, Saad, Keith, Seabrook around him

Shows why one is successful and one isn't.

Kane is allowed to be the explosive goal scorer, playmaker, and do his thing. Other guys handle leadership. Other guys clean up his mistakes. He gets support.

Kessel, not so much.
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I'd definitely agree with this. Need much better players around him, that's not really in question or shouldn't be, IMO.

Where I really disagree with people - just because he can't be "the guy", it doesn't mean you have to trade him. Then you have no guys.
 
Re: Around The League: 2014 - 2015 Season

hockeylover said:
I'd definitely agree with this. Need much better players around him, that's not really in question or shouldn't be, IMO.

Where I really disagree with people - just because he can't be "the guy", it doesn't mean you have to trade him. Then you have no guys.
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Oh im not saying trade him. Im saying you need a true leader and number 1 c with him (even on a different line like toews/kane often are)

Thats hard in torontos cap situation (if you can even get that guy which is hard in itself) but while kessel is well paid hes not the problem on your cap either
 
Re: Around The League: 2014 - 2015 Season

BKerr said:
Oh im not saying trade him. Im saying you need a true leader and number 1 c with him (even on a different line like toews/kane often are)

Thats hard in torontos cap situation (if you can even get that guy which is hard in itself) but while kessel is well paid hes not the problem on your cap either
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Sorry - to be clear... I was agreeing with you.

It's other people - mostly radio yahoos that I disagree with.
 
Re: Around The League: 2014 - 2015 Season

I wouldn't blame Kessel at all if he mails it in the rest of his Leaf career. The fans and media don't deserve him.
 
Re: Around The League: 2014 - 2015 Season

hockeylover said:
I'd definitely agree with this. Need much better players around him, that's not really in question or shouldn't be, IMO.

Where I really disagree with people - just because he can't be "the guy", it doesn't mean you have to trade him. Then you have no guys.
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Kessel would be a good guy to trade because it would really help with a proper rebuild.

He could bring in 2 firsts. The only way to build a Stanley Cup contender is through the draft. The Leafs need a real rebuild. Trading him would expedite that.
 
Re: Around The League: 2014 - 2015 Season

CaptainBolduke said:
Kessel would be a good guy to trade because he really help with a proper rebuild.

He could bring in 2 firsts. The only way to build a Stanley Cup contender is through the draft. The Leafs need a real rebuild. Trading him would expedite that.
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I wouldn't trade Kessel for two random firsts. That would be foolish. I'd be hoping they turned into a Kessel and that wouldn't be for years.

But I don't coach minor hockey, so what do I know?
 
Re: Around The League: 2014 - 2015 Season

In the NHL you build a Stanley Cup contender through the draft. Look at all the top teams.

Trading Kessel would help that. And you're right it would help them to be a STANLEY CUP contender in 5 or so years.

In the NHL you must build through the draft. The Leafs are a prime example of patch work trades and FA signings not working.

There is no need to use defensive language. It's not becoming at all. Also, degrading people who coach real hockey doesn't help your arguments.
 
Re: Around The League: 2014 - 2015 Season

CaptainBolduke said:
In the NHL you build a Stanley Cup contender through the draft. Look at all the top teams.

Trading Kessel would help that. And you're right it would help them to be a STANLEY CUP contender in 5 or so years.

In the NHL you must build through the draft. The Leafs are a prime example of patch work trades and FA signings not working.

There is no need to use defensive language. It's not becoming at all. Also, degrading people who coach real hockey doesn't help your arguments.
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Oh Jimbob.
 
Re: Around The League: 2014 - 2015 Season

lol

Pavel Datsyuk scores with less than a minute left in the third to give Detroit a 3-2 lead on Deadmonton.

When it rains, it pours.
 
Re: Around The League: 2014 - 2015 Season

CaptainBolduke said:
In the NHL you build a Stanley Cup contender through the draft. Look at all the top teams.

Trading Kessel would help that. And you're right it would help them to be a STANLEY CUP contender in 5 or so years.

In the NHL you must build through the draft. The Leafs are a prime example of patch work trades and FA signings not working.

There is no need to use defensive language. It's not becoming at all. Also, degrading people who coach real hockey doesn't help your arguments.
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I'll be as clear as possible here - there is ZERO degrading of people who coach hockey here. None. If you somehow got that, you've simply misinterpreted.

I do not believe the return we get for Phil Kessel will be anywhere close to the value of a 27 year old, consistent top 10 scorer. If we get a return of draft picks, we would just be praying we get a player as talented as Phil Kessel eventually - but it's not likely.

But building through the draft is a good idea. Rielly and Nylander, two more top 10 picks, is a good start. Another Top 10-15 this summer will help too.

Of course, you've already dismissed Rielly and Nylander on our board so we're just going to end up in circles again.
 
Re: Around The League: 2014 - 2015 Season

hockeylover, I hope for your sake that the Leafs don't rush Nylander into the NHL next year. He should be in the AHL learning how to play the NA game and how to play some defense. Freddy The Goat will help him. :)
 
Re: Around The League: 2014 - 2015 Season

GGpX said:
hockeylover, I hope for your sake that the Leafs don't rush Nylander into the NHL next year. He should be in the AHL learning how to play the NA game and how to play some defense. Freddy The Goat will help him. :)
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I think he'll be the NHL next year. There'll be some ups and downs but that's okay. At least with me it is.
 
Re: Around The League: 2014 - 2015 Season

I have a new found respect for Brad Marchand. He got into it with Krug in practice. He agrees that the world is a better place when one punches Torrey Krug in the face.
 
Re: Around The League: 2014 - 2015 Season

hockeylover said:
I think he'll be the NHL next year. There'll be some ups and downs but that's okay. At least with me it is.
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I read an interesting theory on young European players coming over to play in North America.

There's always a lot of Europeans that come to the CHL to get more exposure and hopefully get drafted by an NHL team. Some make it, most don't. But a lot of Euro players who go to the CHL for a few years to "develop" and return to Europe afterwards are seen to have regressed, as if they didn't improve their game at all and only regressed. One of the theories that was talked about was that playing European hockey is like playing the blues-style guitar, while North American hockey is like playing electric style of guitar (GrandWazoo knows guitars better than me, so I might have mixed 'em up). The point here is that, if you're learning to play the blues-style of guitar, it would be better for you if you mastered (or at the very least, become very proficient in it) that style before attempting to learn the electric style of guitar. It was an interesting theory.

Anyway, I'm a firm believer in patience with young players and developing them slowly in the AHL to iron out their mistakes. I look at the Detroit Red Wings and that's how I would have my organization run.
 
Re: Around The League: 2014 - 2015 Season

TheCountofMonteCristo said:
I have a new found respect for Brad Marchand. He got into it with Krug in practice. He agrees that the world is a better place when one punches Torrey Krug in the face.
Click to expand...

I'm surprised you're not just happy that two Bruins were fighting each other. :)
 
Re: Around The League: 2014 - 2015 Season

GGpX said:
I read an interesting theory on young European players coming over to play in North America.

There's always a lot of Europeans that come to the CHL to get more exposure and hopefully get drafted by an NHL team. Some make it, most don't. But a lot of Euro players who go to the CHL for a few years to "develop" and return to Europe afterwards are seen to have regressed, as if they didn't improve their game at all and only regressed. One of the theories that was talked about was that playing European hockey is like playing the blues-style guitar, while North American hockey is like playing electric style of guitar (GrandWazoo knows guitars better than me, so I might have mixed 'em up). The point here is that, if you're learning to play the blues-style of guitar, it would be better for you if you mastered (or at the very least, become very proficient in it) that style before attempting to learn the electric style of guitar. It was an interesting theory.

Anyway, I'm a firm believer in patience with young players and developing them slowly in the AHL to iron out their mistakes. I look at the Detroit Red Wings and that's how I would have my organization run.
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I respect how the Red Wings run their organization but I feel like it's fair to point out that they very typically are drafting very late in the first round and they definitely don't shy away from guys who are long-term projects. I'm not really sure how they'd treat an 8th overall pick since they haven't made a pick in the Top 10 since 1991 but I don't think I'd simply emulate how Detroit treats a 20th-30th overall pick - that doesn't make much sense to me. A forward picked in the top 10 of the NHL draft making the league at 19 certainly wouldn't be out of the ordinary.

As for mastering the blues-style guitar... well, I definitely won't use the term mastered but what Nylander's doing at 18 in the SHL I would definitely call proficient. PPG would be one of the best 18 year old seasons in the SHL of all time.
 
Re: Around The League: 2014 - 2015 Season

GGpX said:
hockeylover, I hope for your sake that the Leafs don't rush Nylander into the NHL next year. He should be in the AHL learning how to play the NA game and how to play some defense. Freddy The Goat will help him. :)
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you should want him in the NHL next year because if he is not ready to play,he will be a bust, which is good and it will allow you to claim see another rushed player
 
Re: Around The League: 2014 - 2015 Season

No, unlike you I actually hope these players succeed.
 
Re: Around The League: 2014 - 2015 Season

hockeylover said:
I respect how the Red Wings run their organization but I feel like it's fair to point out that they very typically are drafting very late in the first round and they definitely don't shy away from guys who are long-term projects. I'm not really sure how they'd treat an 8th overall pick since they haven't made a pick in the Top 10 since 1991 but I don't think I'd simply emulate how Detroit treats a 20th-30th overall pick - that doesn't make much sense to me. A forward picked in the top 10 of the NHL draft making the league at 19 certainly wouldn't be out of the ordinary.

As for mastering the blues-style guitar... well, I definitely won't use the term mastered but what Nylander's doing at 18 in the SHL I would definitely call proficient. PPG would be one of the best 18 year old seasons in the SHL of all time.
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The Red Wings had one the hottest prospects in hockey coming into this season with Anthony Mantha. He started in the AHL. I think Detroit would have handled a top-10 pick the same way they would have handled a late first round pick unless said top-10 pick had an impeccable two-way game. Nylander & Kessel are similar in the sense that, if they're not in the offensive zone, they're not effective players. Maybe a year in the AHL could help improve that aspect of Nylander's game, maybe not. But I would be in no hurry to put Nylander in the NHL.
 
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