Around the League 2019-2024 Edition

[Volcanologist]

Mackinnon has 93 points in 70 playoff games and now a ring. McDavid and Mackinnon have dominant playoff numbers and now that Auston has shown he can win regular season hardware too, that is the next hurdle.

not that it matters; the Leafs will give Matthews a blank check regardless. No other option is palatable as this is the best player they've ever had. They cannot afford to NOT sign him.

 

[leafman101]

Maybe Matthews is happy with $11.5 though. Or doesn’t even need that much. He’ll get whatever he wants, as he should.

 

[zeke]

not that it matters; the Leafs will give Matthews a blank check regardless. No other option is palatable as this is the best player they've ever had. They cannot afford to NOT sign him.

.weird way to say he's simply worth the money.

 

[Volcanologist]

the reality is simply that there won't be any real significant cap relief until Tavares is off the books.

 

[hockeylover]

We have loads of capspace to resign Matthews. We only have four contracts signed then.

 

[Volcanologist]

.weird way to say he's simply worth the money.

he's worth elite money, when have I said otherwise? the topic is vs. Mackinnon and whether Matthews deserves more. I simply pointed out that it's not relevant because if he wants more he'll get it from the Leafs. It's not like they can trade this guy or let him walk.

 

[zeke]

he's worth elite money, when have I said otherwise? the topic is vs. Mackinnon and whether Matthews deserves more. I simply pointed out that it's not relevant because if he wants more he'll get it from the Leafs. It's not like they can trade this guy or let him walk.

I dunno you made a case that he's not comparable to MacKinnon and then said the Leafs can't let him walk even if he wants significantly more than MacKinnon.

 

[JackBurton]

I think Matthews will feel pressure not to go too high

 

[MindzEye]

I mean, Seguin, Hamilton, and Toffoli are better than one Kessel who couldn’t will us into the playoffs more than once.

Yes, if we drafted absolutely perfectly, I agree that would have been better than Kessel. But Seguin + Duncan Siemens + Jared Knight becomes a much, much less attractive return on the flip side. Dougie was the consensus best player on the board at the time (most mocks had him going 7-8), but Siemens was considered a future rugged 2 way defender, Baertschi a potential offensive weapon of a winger, there was lots of room to make mistakes.

As it turned out, Seguin would have been a bad player to anchor the franchise to for a decade, whatever else we ended up with.

 

[MindzEye]

Mackinnon has 93 points in 70 playoff games and now a ring. McDavid and Mackinnon have dominant playoff numbers and now that Auston has shown he can win regular season hardware too, that is the next hurdle.

not that it matters; the Leafs will give Matthews a blank check regardless. No other option is palatable as this is the best player they've ever had. They cannot afford to NOT sign him.

Auston is the type of guy that you build the franchise around for 15 years, period. He's in that calibre of player just below the uber greats (Gretz, Lemieux, Orr, prime healthy Crosby, prime healthy Lindros). He probably ends up in a career legacy group with Yzerman, Sakic, Howe (minus the ridiculous longevity), Forsberg, Ovy, Jagr, Hull(s). Probably looking at 500 goals before he turns 30, and with any sort of injury luck at all chases 700 career goals. Basically the answer to the question: What would happen if you made Mike Bossy into a 6'3 dominant 2 way centre?

Sign him forever.

 

[JackBurton]

Yes, if we drafted absolutely perfectly, I agree that would have been better than Kessel. But Seguin + Duncan Siemens + Jared Knight becomes a much, much less attractive return on the flip side. Dougie was the consensus best player on the board at the time (most mocks had him going 7-8), but Siemens was considered a future rugged 2 way defender, Baertschi a potential offensive weapon of a winger, there was lots of room to make mistakes.

As it turned out, Seguin would have been a bad player to anchor the franchise to for a decade, whatever else we ended up with.

Anyone recall the Jared Knight hype because he was picked with a Leaf draft pick in the Kessel deal? LOL

 

[Volcanologist]

I dunno you made a case that he's not comparable to MacKinnon and then said the Leafs can't let him walk even if he wants significantly more than MacKinnon.

I did not say either of those things. what is "significantly"?

 

[Volcanologist]

Auston is the type of guy that you build the franchise around for 15 years, period. He's in that calibre of player just below the uber greats (Gretz, Lemieux, Orr, prime healthy Crosby, prime healthy Lindros). He probably ends up in a career legacy group with Yzerman, Sakic, Howe (minus the ridiculous longevity), Forsberg, Ovy, Jagr, Hull(s). Probably looking at 500 goals before he turns 30, and with any sort of injury luck at all chases 700 career goals. Basically the answer to the question: What would happen if you made Mike Bossy into a 6'3 dominant 2 way centre?

Sign him forever.

well ya. nobody said don't sign him, least of all me. he's a HOF player in the making.

 

[MindzEye]

Anyone recall the Jared Knight hype because he was picked with a Leaf draft pick in the Kessel deal? LOL

Yes, yes I do.

That's generally my issue with the whole ordeal. Seguin hype was real during/after his 2nd season but he turned out to be the soft, one dimensional playoff flop that Kessel was wrongfully billed as. Dougie was hyped as a future 2 way Norris contender beast but instead turned out to be: What would happen if you made Morgan Rielly right handed, taller, and more reliant on PP production? That's a nice player, but not what the hype machine told us he was definitely going to be because the Toronto media fucking hated Phil Kessel and wanted to grind our gears about it.

So yeah, could we argue that the sum of Seguin + Hamilton is > Kessel. Absolutely. But Kessel > Seguin = Hamilton in the end. We ended up with the best player in the trade.

 

[Wayward DP]

and again, we did not trade Seguin for Kessel. We did not even trade #2 overall for Kessel.

We traded two unprotected first round picks for Kessel. When we made the trade, the odds of any of those picks being better than Phil were very, very low. And the odds held true.

blame Burkie for not acquiring a real goalie and finishing in the league basement despite acquiring Phil, sure. blame Burkie for not lottery protecting the picks, sure.

but trading a whole bunch of lottery tickets for something closer to a sure thing? yeah, I would do that again. funny enough, despite things working out about as poorly as they could for the Leafs in terms of our draft picks and lottery etc, Kessel is still the best player in the trade.

 

[fergy57]

Prior to the Kessel trade, I am curious (but too lazy to look), I wonder how many trades in hockey (or any sport- though I think it may have been a thing in the NBA), had lottery protection for the picks. I just don't recall too many trades having lotter protection before that.

 

[LeafOfFaith]

Maybe Matthews is happy with $11.5 though. Or doesn’t even need that much. He’ll get whatever he wants, as he should.

Matty should give some thought to leaving some dollars for others so that there's a strong enough supporting cast that will help them advance and reach the next level. If him and Marner just loot the coffers for every penny they can get, they'll potentially be sacrificing their legacies for a few extra bucks unless they learn how to win playoff series singlehandedly.

 

[LeafOfFaith]

Prior to the Kessel trade, I am curious (but too lazy to look), I wonder how many trades in hockey (or any sport- though I think it may have been a thing in the NBA), had lottery protection for the picks. I just don't recall too many trades having lotter protection before that.

It wasn't a thing in hockey (definitely was in other sports though). That's why when I met Burke in person I asked him specifically if it was possible to protect those picks. And he swiftly and unabashedly said absolutely he could've.

 

[hockeylover]

 

[LeafOfFaith]

Yes, if we drafted absolutely perfectly, I agree that would have been better than Kessel. But Seguin + Duncan Siemens + Jared Knight becomes a much, much less attractive return on the flip side. Dougie was the consensus best player on the board at the time (most mocks had him going 7-8), but Siemens was considered a future rugged 2 way defender, Baertschi a potential offensive weapon of a winger, there was lots of room to make mistakes.

As it turned out, Seguin would have been a bad player to anchor the franchise to for a decade, whatever else we ended up with.

I think we both agree with each other, that it could've gone either way.

But I'm taking one step further back. It was a bad gamble. When TB traded two 1sts for a guy this past deadline, it was a dumb deal, but you can look at it through another lens. They were clearly one of the best teams, coming off back to back championships and going for three. The gamble is justifiable there.

With the Leafs and fucking Grabovski as their 1C and zero in the pipeline and coming off zero playoff appearances, it was a fucking dumb gamble. There's nothing that changes that other than the Leafs becoming an ultra competitive team and proving the Burkie quick retool model. And that never happened, didn't even come close.