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Habspatrol said:
So your argument is "if a snake oil salesman convinces people that his bullshit will help them, and it makes them happy... he's not really a conman."
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I mean, I'm not a religious guy (spiritual, yes, religious, no), and find myself playing devil's advocate here, where the pile on has somehow pushed me into the corner of defending a pastor and his outside activities, which have nothing to do whatsoever with the tv sermons...but you guys keep making these statements based on nothing other than an apparent disdain for religion, which I can understand, but at least be honest about it.

He's rich because he's one of the most successful pastors on the planet due to not just a large congregation, but also a tv show. This somehow gives him the status of horrible creature because people en masse like what he has to say and (I assume) happen to be religious in most cases and thus find some sort of comfort in donating to what they feel is a worthwhile cause. I don't see what the problem is there, how that is an immoral thing or results in a conclusion that he is swindling people. And if any of you pay your synagogue membership or donate to your church, you should have no problem with it since you're doing what all those people are doing, just directing your money to an organization lacking such a public profile. Or are you being swindled too, just by a relative unknown and so that's somehow okay?

And if your position is that anyone who gives money to religion is de facto being ripped off, then that's really just your opinion based on your particular belief system, and you just have a problem with religion in general.
 
Simple recap:

LOF: these tv lectures have a positive message and good content, and can add some interesting perspective on how one lives one's life.

FI: you are listening to a horrible person because he is a televangelist and people of his faith and/or who like him send him money and he has gotten very wealthy from it, so whatever he says in those sermons (which none of us have ever listened to) can never drown out the horrors of the other things he has said and done (of which we have no examples).

LOF: got it, thanks, you do you.

FI: no, we will need to continue to push our unreasonable oppressive viewpoints here and criticize and ridicule with no factual basis or cause.

LOF: cool.

FI: he's a horrible person.
 
LeafOfFaith said:
And if your position is that anyone who gives money to religion is de facto being ripped off, then that's really just your opinion based on your particular belief system, and you just have a problem with religion in general.
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Does he have to keep THAT much for himself? Like, shouldn't a lot more of that money go to help people?

He's not asking people to give money for him to have mega mansions and private jets... but that's when the money goes.

He's a fuckin grifter/conman... period.
 
LeafOfFaith said:
Simple recap:

LOF: these tv lectures have a positive message and good content, and can add some interesting perspective on how one lives one's life.

FI: you are listening to a horrible person because he is a televangelist and people of his faith and/or who like him send him money and he has gotten very wealthy from it, so whatever he says in those sermons (which none of us have ever listened to) can never drown out the horrors of the other things he has said and done (of which we have no examples).

LOF: got it, thanks, you do you.

FI: no, we will need to continue to push our unreasonable oppressive viewpoints here and criticize and ridicule with no factual basis or cause.

LOF: cool.

FI: he's a horrible person.
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LOF - jOeL oLsTeEn Is TeH gReAtEsT

FI - He's a conman

LOF - i HeArT hItLeR!!!
 
Habspatrol said:
Does he have to keep THAT much for himself? Like, shouldn't a lot more of that money go to help people?

He's not asking people to give money for him to have mega mansions and private jets... but that's when the money goes.

He's a fuckin grifter/conman... period.
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Do you know what percentage he has kept for himself and what percentage he has used to employ people, to fund charitable causes, etc.?
 
LeafOfFaith said:
Do you know what percentage he has kept for himself and what percentage he has used to employ people, to fund charitable causes, etc.?
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His net worth is estimated to be more than $100 million. More or less solely from taking money from people to get them into heaven.
 
Habspatrol said:
His net worth is estimated to be more than $100 million. More or less solely from taking money from people to get them into heaven.
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Or alternatively framed as taking money from people who may rightfully find value in being members of his congregation or otherwise getting his content from tv or elsewhere.

But my point was, how do you know what percentage his estimated worth represents of the total monies received over the years?
 
If one finds positive inspiration from what this guy says why does it seem to upset so many here.. some people find inspiration or joy from music produced by singers or groups who are less than upstanding citizens.

There are businesses who fleece there customers much of the time but we still use their products because we like and enjoy what they sell.
 
anne25 said:
If one finds positive inspiration from what this guy says why does it seem to upset so many here.. some people find inspiration or joy from music produced by singers or groups who are less than upstanding citizens.

There are businesses who fleece there customers much of the time but we still use their products because we like and enjoy what they sell.
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Nailed it. Religion = business is the problem here
 
anne25 said:
There are businesses who fleece there customers much of the time but we still use their products because we like and enjoy what they sell.
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that is a twisted justification for taking life advice from obvious grifters
 
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