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Core 4 No More: The Motherfucking Off-Season Thread

It's not exactly all up to him. And I don't recall him saying specifically that he'd break up the core.

I think you yourself made fun of the fact that he gave us a word soup that didn't amount to anything on that specific point.
 
LeafOfFaith said:
It's not exactly all up to him. And I don't recall him saying specifically that he'd break up the core.

I think you yourself made fun of the fact that he gave us a word soup that didn't amount to anything on that specific point.
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"Can you win a cup with this core?"

"Bla bla bla bla bla now's not the time to be patient with certain players anymore."

Sounds like a man that his made up his mind. But we can agree to disagree on that.
 
Preston said:
Dom's model weighs his pp impact far too high. He does not drive the pp, and if anything holds it back. 5 on 5 his production rates were worse than bobby McMann, Knies and similar to Holmberg. Despite better linemates than all three for most of the year.

But that's a long widely known issue with Dom's model.
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Its not that exactly.

The model has to apportion out value for PP toi whether or not the player deserves that pp toi.

If tavares wasn't slotted in for any pp toi by the coach then the model wouldn't hive him any pp value.

Though it's not free value either - the model does measure pp effectiveness too. At least somewhat.
 
that may be an over simplification because the model has players with negative PP value. So presumably it sorts out positive and negative impacts on the pp.

For example, Krok had a -3 on the PP this year.
 
But would Krok be -3 if he played with Matthews, Marner, Willy on a pp? Is he not being penalized for lesser qot?
 
Not if the model works properly, most models try to account usage, and Dom is actually one of the bigger proponents of it, but we don’t know.

It seems like most of Tavares PP value is derived from being 2nd in the NHL in ixG, from getting a ton of chances in front. He’s a good PP weapon still.
 
Ah so he gets his value because his role is literally designed to get the majority of chances in tight on the pp with elite talent around him creating those chances. Makes sense.
 
Yes, But in fairness, I don’t think Reaves gets the same results in the same minutes. Around the net is JTs bread and butter. Always has been. He’s one of the best there. He still has the shot and hands, he just can’t move.

Also it doesn’t properly account for his negative value on entries.
 
leafman101 said:
Yes, But in fairness, I don’t think Reaves gets the same results in the same minutes. Around the net is JTs bread and butter. Always has been. He’s one of the best there. He still has the shot and hands, he just can’t move.

Also it doesn’t properly account for his negative value on entries.
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Yeah of course, or Jarnkrok. But imo there's a decent case that the model exaggerates his effectiveness, and it would for anyone in that role on a top unit pp alongside Matthews, Marner, Willy. He's still great in front of the net but I think he even took a step back there this year. Their pp got an immediate bump when Bert took over. Then, if I remember correctly, it got cold after and didn't get any better when JT got his spot back.

And yeah the entry thing is killer.
 
Don't think the leafs are gonna have much patience for players who have crumbled under pressure. I don't trust Pagnotta but I do 100% believe that Timmy is potentially getting moved.
 
Preston said:
"Can you win a cup with this core?"

"Bla bla bla bla bla now's not the time to be patient with certain players anymore."

Sounds like a man that his made up his mind. But we can agree to disagree on that.
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I mean, he could be referring to anyone with "certain players" and may not even be referring to someone in the core.

He also may have his own opinions, which may not be shared by Treedledum, and might be influenced by yuck new coach Berube.

You can also lose patience and realize that it wouldn't be feasible to try to wrestle for NMC waivers or bend over backwards to trade a contract with one year left.

You might also spend $25M and like what you've got and decide it wouldn't make sense to delete from the core.

Everything is on the table and the team has flexibility to do a lot without dismantling anything before the new coach gets a shot with it.

It would be the height of stupidity for instance to trade Marner in any deal that doesn't see us get a player better than Marner. I wouldn't want to even risk a one for one of similar quality like for Petterson in the fear that it would backfire on us given it's a 50/50 coin toss.
 
LeafOfFaith said:
I mean, he could be referring to anyone with "certain players" and may not even be referring to someone in the core.

He also may have his own opinions, which may not be shared by Treedledum, and might be influenced by yuck new coach Berube.

You can also lose patience and realize that it wouldn't be feasible to try to wrestle for NMC waivers or bend over backwards to trade a contract with one year left.

You might also spend $25M and like what you've got and decide it wouldn't make sense to delete from the core.

Everything is on the table and the team has flexibility to do a lot without dismantling anything before the new coach gets a shot with it.

It would be the height of stupidity for instance to trade Marner in any deal that doesn't see us get a player better than Marner. I wouldn't want to even risk a one for one of similar quality like for Petterson in the fear that it would backfire on us given it's a 50/50 coin toss.
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denial is a powerful motherfucker
 
leafman101 said:
Yes, But in fairness, I don’t think Reaves gets the same results in the same minutes. Around the net is JTs bread and butter. Always has been. He’s one of the best there. He still has the shot and hands, he just can’t move.

Also it doesn’t properly account for his negative value on entries.
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Negative value on entries can be negated by a coach that stops resorting to the same flawed play.
 
Preston said:
Don't think the leafs are gonna have much patience for players who have crumbled under pressure. I don't trust Pagnotta but I do 100% believe that Timmy is potentially getting moved.
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I think we're going to hear literally every name mentioned other than a few obvious ones like Matty, Nylander, Knies.

Nobody else would really be untouchable, but I also doubt that they give up on young guys like Lilly and Robertson when they literally just acknowledged the coach was shit by firing him.
 
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