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Core 4 No More: The Motherfucking Off-Season Thread

mbow30 said:
Preston is like a man wearing a fine pair of comfy sneakers.
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CH1 said:
8 x 9.5
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Seriously though, I don't think Ullmark (age/role) or Saros (age/size) are going to be able to push the top of the goalie mountain or even that close. Helle & Sorokin both recently extended for 8.5 (10.2) & 8.25 (9.9%)respectively. Shesty probably beats that when the Rangers re-up him but the days of the Price (14.0%) & Bobrovsky(11.7%) contracts seems pretty dead and gone for now. Even Vasy (11.2) was cheaper and it started when he was 26....he then won a few Cups while they were paying him out and this was the first "bad" year of his career and he was a tiny bit below average.

Ullmark and Saros are probably squeezed more into Kuemper(6.36)/Jarry(6.44)/Grubauer(7.28)/Markstrom(7.36) type of market than the Sorokin/Hellebuyck/Shesterkin end of it, however much they want to be up there obviously. Yeah, I'd do that and then keep farming cheap #2's and #3's through the organization, whether that's Woll's, Hildeby's, Ahky's. Misfit toys like Stolarz, cheap veterans on their last legs like Talbot.
 
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Broissoit, Stolarz, Talbot aren’t good enough. Health permitting they might be fine if Woll continues developing into a solid goalie. But If that’s the best Bundy can do next season then we need someone else in charge.

Take a chance on someone with high upside. Pay the premium for the best goalie on the market. Or get the fuck out of here.

And fuck off with mitigating risks on goaltending. That’s what’s led us to Mrazek, Campbell and all the other sieves we’ve had.
 
MindzEye said:
Seriously though, I don't think Ullmark (age/role) or Saros (age/size) are going to be able to push the top of the goalie mountain or even that close. Helle & Sorokin both recently extended for 8.5 (10.2) & 8.25 (9.9%)respectively. Shesty probably beats that when the Rangers re-up him but the days of the Price (14.0%) & Bobrovsky(11.7%) contracts seems pretty dead and gone for now. Even Vasy (11.2) was cheaper and it started when he was 26....he then won a few Cups while they were paying him out and this was the first "bad" year of his career and he was a tiny bit below average.

Ullmark and Saros are probably squeezed more into Kuemper(6.36)/Jarry(6.44)/Grubauer(7.28)/Markstrom(7.36) type of market than the Sorokin/Hellebuyck/Shesterkin end of it, however much they want to be up there obviously. Yeah, I'd do that and then keep farming cheap #2's and #3's through the organization, whether that's Woll's, Hildeby's, Ahky's. Misfit toys like Stolarz, cheap veterans on their last legs like Talbot.
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But what lengh of contract are you okay with at those hits. Saros will be 30 next year and ullmark will be 31 at the beginning of it.
 
you have a guy like Ullmark available for the reasonable price he should cost, you go get him. something like benoit and a first probably gets it done. unfortunately we are to busy getting ready to pay full retail for markstom and the devils are going to get keefe a good number 1 in ullmark
 
What has Ullmark done in extended runs and in the playoffs?

When is the right time for a goalie to become elite.?
Bob was literally considered the worst goalie contract in the league aside from the second half of last year and this.

Should we get a 10 million dollar goalie and hope he gets it back and is hot in may June.
 
trujaysfan said:
But what lengh of contract are you okay with at those hits. Saros will be 30 next year and ullmark will be 31 at the beginning of it.
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4-6 yrs is the going range on those type of guys, which around that 6-7% number I'm good with. There's just too many examples of "bad" contracts turning into LTIR over the last few years of it for me to worry too much about the difference between 4 yrs 5-6 for those middle 30 yrs imo. I used to stress out about it, don't so much anymore.

Either would be a good 1A for us and give the organization the opportunity start streaming other options in with a safety net. The idea isn't to rely on the 1A to be everything for us.
 
I feel like the “acquire a mediocre, aging career backup goalie and hope and pray they turn out to suddenly be good in an expanded role” strategy has been tried by this team far too many times over the years.

Enough of that shit. Forget the Broissoits of the world and go out and get someone with a track record of being able to handle 40-50 starts while providing at least above-average goaltending.
 
Too bad Keefe didn't have the balls to play Woll from the start of the series and win it in 5-6 games.

Now there's this impression like we don't have the proper in-house option and need to go out there and do our usual throw assets for other people's unproven goalie castoffs thing we do every few years instead of rolling with our own unproven goalie options that won't cost us 1sts and big money.

I know it feels like time is of the essence with this window, but some of the realities of this season make it a transition type year. Woll not having had a full season, Tavares contract in final year, Marner will he or won't he, true impact of full seasons from Knies/Robbie/McMann/Cowan, new UFAs, new coach - we need to do what we should've done last year and see how this all looks for one season. Changing course and throwing money at a goalie and trying to push stuff out the door without seeing what the current mix can do with some upgrading and tweaking around the edges while we wait for contract situations to play out would be a big mistake. The season after is the one for big change if this next one fails, not this next season.
 
I have never been more convinced in my position on this. Forumice has been so consistently wrong about everything goaltending for years now. If they believe one thing, then the Leafs should definitely do the opposite. The fact that we're even spending this much energy on goaltending is hilarious to me considering it wasn't even in the top five reasons they have sucked balls in the last two playoffs.
 
Hoss said:
What has Ullmark done in extended runs and in the playoffs?

When is the right time for a goalie to become elite.?
Bob was literally considered the worst goalie contract in the league aside from the second half of last year and this.

Should we get a 10 million dollar goalie and hope he gets it back and is hot in may June.
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You don't get Ullmark to play 60 games imo, you get him to give you 45 games of well above average play. For the playoffs, you play whoever is going the best down the stretch. We don't have and are unlikely to get an elite 60+ game starter. There's like 3 of those guys in the world. The goal imo is to have a real good 1A and the develop/add a good 1B on the cheap to play behind him. The 1A is a security blanket of sorts to give you the time to sort that second bit out. If you're on the 90% of the league who doesn't have that legit #1 guy , you need 2 goalies that you wouldn't cringe at the idea of sending out there in a game 7.

Bob is a funny one. Was legit the best goalie in the world for a few years before signing the contract. Sucked hard the first year he got paid was pretty averagish overall over the next 3 years combined and then really good this year at 35.
 
I can see the argument for both sides here, but at the end of the day, i think its better to blow your shot spending on a good goalie and failing then it is to over and over and over again do the league min/project netminder and fail with your high end core.

I know i just blasted Ottawa for doing the former, but they stink, and shouldnt be at the stage for spending on a G, let alone 3 bad ones year after year after year.

Woll might be something, but he needs a dude to step in there for 45 games IMO, and finding a guy who was already a Woll with no track record of the horse roll ( god, 45 games is a horse now?) seems foolhardy if there are legit 1's out there
 
LeafOfFaith said:
Too bad Keefe didn't have the balls to play Woll from the start of the series and win it in 5-6 games.

Now there's this impression like we don't have the proper in-house option and need to go out there and do our usual throw assets for other people's unproven goalie castoffs thing we do every few years instead of rolling with our own unproven goalie options that won't cost us 1sts and big money.

I know it feels like time is of the essence with this window, but some of the realities of this season make it a transition type year. Woll not having had a full season, Tavares contract in final year, Marner will he or won't he, true impact of full seasons from Knies/Robbie/McMann/Cowan, new UFAs, new coach - we need to do what we should've done last year and see how this all looks for one season. Changing course and throwing money at a goalie and trying to push stuff out the door without seeing what the current mix can do with some upgrading and tweaking around the edges while we wait for contract situations to play out would be a big mistake. The season after is the one for big change if this next one fails, not this next season.
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That is the impression I have, but it’s not because I don’t think Woll is good, and not because I don’t think we’d have won that series if Woll had started every game.

The undeniable fact is that Woll has struggled with serious injury problems in each of his professional seasons, and we saw it again this year. He severely injured his ankle just standing by himself in his crease, and then he was unavailable for a game seven because he somehow managed to break his back making a cross-crease save.

Hopefully it’s something he’ll eventually figure out, but until then we need a good insurance policy for him. Probably also wouldn’t hurt him to have a veteran starter to learn from.
 
Preston said:
I have never been more convinced in my position on this. Forumice has been so consistently wrong about everything goaltending for years now. If they believe one thing, then the Leafs should definitely do the opposite. The fact that we're even spending this much energy on goaltending is hilarious to me considering it wasn't even in the top five reasons they have sucked balls in the last two playoffs.
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You guys have twisted yourself in such a weird circle on this goaltending is voodoo stuff that you're eating your own ass.
 
LeafGm said:
That is the impression I have, but it’s not because I don’t think Woll is good, and not because I don’t think we’d have won that series if Woll had started every game.

The undeniable fact is that Woll has struggled with serious injury problems in each of his professional seasons, and we saw it again this year. He severely injured his ankle just standing by himself in his crease, and then he was unavailable for a game seven because he somehow managed to break his back making a cross-crease save.

Hopefully it’s something he’ll eventually figure out, but until then we need a good insurance policy for him. Probably also wouldn’t hurt him to have a veteran starter to learn from.
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Fully agree with all that. And I probably prefer known commodity veteran over unproven guy with upside as the platoon guy with Woll.
 
MindzEye said:
You guys have twisted yourself in such a weird circle on this goaltending is voodoo stuff that you're eating your own ass.
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Bob is a funny one. Was legit the best goalie in the world for a few years before signing the contract. Sucked hard the first year he got paid was pretty averagish overall over the next 3 years combined and then really good this year at 35.
 
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