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Core 4 No More: The Motherfucking Off-Season Thread

Preston said:
Hold on I didn't say trade for dubois. I said a multi piece package of youth like the dubois trade. But obviously on a far larger scale since Marner is way better.

Everyone is looking for that d but if a true #1 stud isn't available maybe address that need in free agency instead. And if you're dead set on trading Marner I bet they can easily find those multi piece dubois esque packages out there. That requires some high end scouting and talent hunting ability tho to get it right and uhhh Tre don't have that.

Tldr: I'm pre coping with what will likely be a very underwhelming trade. I very much prefer they go stud d or keep him.
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Thanks for clarifying.
 
i'd like to know how much input Berube had into the blues replacing Pietro with Faulk.

actually let me take a look at something...


D-Corps pre-Berube (* = traded midseason):

16-17: 1.Pietro 27, 2.Bo 33, 3.Parayko 23, 4.Shattenkirk* 28, 5.Edmundson 23, 6.Gunnarsson 30, 7.Bortuzzo 27
17-18: 1.Pietro 28, 2.Parayko 24, 3.Edmundson 24, 4.Bo 34, 5.Dunn 21, 6.Gunnarsson 31, 7.Bortuzzo 28
18-19: 1.Pietro 29, 2.Parayko 25, 3.Edmundson 25, 4.Bo 35, 6.Dunn 22, 6.Gunnarsson 32, 7.Bortuzzo 29

With Berube

18-19: 1.Pietro 29, 2.Parayko 25, 3.Bo 35, 4.Edmundson 25, 5.Dunn 22, 6.Gunnarsson 33, 7.Bortuzzo 29
19-20: 1.Pietro 30, 2.Paryako 26, 3.Bo 36, 4.Faulk 27, 5.Dunn 23, 6.Gunnarsson 34, 7.Bortuzzo 30
20-21: 1.Faulk 28, 2.Krug 29, 3.Parayko 27, 4.Scandella 30, 5.Dunn 24, 6.Mikkola 24, 7.Bortuzzo 31
21-22: 1.Faulk 29, 2.Parayko 28, 3.Krug 30, 4.Scandella 31, 5.Walman 25/Leddy 30, 6.Mikkola 25, 7.Bortuzzo 32
22-23: 1.Faulk 30, 2.Parayko 29, 3.Krug 31, 4.Leddy 31, 5.Scandella 32, 6.Mikkola* 26, 7.Bortuzzo 33
23-24: 1.Faulk 31, 2.Parayko 30, 3.Krug 32, 4.Leddy 32, 5.Scandella 33, 6.Perunovich 25, 7.Tucker 23


So under Berube, if he had any influence on defenseman transactions, the moves looked basically like this:

1. Edmundson OUT, Faulk IN

That's actually encouraging. His first move was to first give Bo more playing time than Eddy, then the blues moved Eddy out and added a much more skilled guy in Faulk.

2. Bo OUT (injured/old), Scandella IN

Like for like. Solid big mobile defensive dmen.

3. Pietro OUT, Krug IN

Still don't get what happened here, but at least when they needed a Pietro replacement, they went for skill over chunk.

4. Gunnarsson OUT (injured/old), Mikkola IN

Just an internal replacement of a bottom pair defensive dman with a drafted defensive dman.

5. Dunn/Walman OUT, Leddy IN

Dunn is the biggest black mark here. Berube never gave him a shot at top-4 minutes, and then they lost him in the expansion draft. The internal replacement at first was Walman, who is a nicely skilled guy himself, but who was then traded for Leddy - again, at least they went out and replaced him with a guy with good skill and skating.

6. Mikkola OUT, Perunovich IN

Good news here is that they didn't fall in love with big chunky Mikkola either, and added him into the Tarasenko trade. And their first replacement for Mikkola was undersized skilled Perunovich.





So who knows how much influence Berube had on these transactions, but the moves here definitely show that the team understood the importance of skill on the backend throughout his tenure, even if he never gave Dunn a real chance for some reason.
 
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Preston said:
Oh God I forgot that Tre is gm, maybe he'll actually trade Marner for Dubois. It would be the first time wehave has ever been right so I'm not holding my breath on that
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I've been right about how every Leafs season would end every year since this board was created (and several years prior to the invention of the internet) That's DiMaggio 56 game hit streak consistency right there.
 
WeHaveMoreCupsThanYou said:
I've been right about how every Leafs season would end every year since this board was created (and several years prior to the invention of the internet) That's DiMaggio 56 game hit streak consistency right there.
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Wow you predicted that a team won't win a cup in a given season. 97% odds if everyone has an equal probability, which isn't far off from reality. You really go out on a limb there. Bravo for the bold prediction.

My prediction: Boston will not win the cup this year.
 
Preston said:
Wow you predicted that a team won't win a cup in a given season. 97% odds if everyone has an equal probability, which isn't far off from reality. You really go out on a limb there. Bravo for the bold prediction.

My prediction: Boston will not win the cup this year.
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It's a bold prediction to make in early October in a virtual room full of people in Leafs jerseys (some of whom also jerk off to feet pics)
 
Preston said:
It's an interesting year with so many real gud ufa d. Yes it would be delightful to turn Mitch into an elite d but the availability of solid ufa d could mean they go for a dubois(+++ I hope) package instead. A nice mix of some young 1st line caliber talent, forward or d, and use the cap savings from trading him and ideally JT to grab one or two of the ufa d. Of course that likely means they lose the trade but do your homework and you can find some gems.

I'm sure the Leafs are also sick of Mitch's camps shit. There were rumblings years ago about his dad almost getting him traded. I don't think there's a chance in hell they sign up for more of that long-term.
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Yeah, I've thought about that. Where we target younger players that become future core players and go for a 4 quarters for a dollar type trade but that has upside that some of the other deals that make sense don't.

Would be an interesting way to reset the championship window tbh. Auston probably has 5-6+ years of prime prime left. Willy similar. If a Marner trade was something that brought back 20-23 yr good young player (Byfield, Lafreniere, Johnston, Michkov, Seider, etc) with some other pieces, I'm good with it not including someone who is a 1st line forward or top pairing defender right now. If you've cleared some cap with a parallel Tavares move, you have lots of dry powder left to go add free agency to sort out whatever has holes left in it after the two trades.
 
hockeylover said:
I can see the individual nerdies, did I miss team rankings posted somewhere?

Or do I also not want to know?
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Pre Berube

16-17: 51.2xgf% (#10)
17-18: 51.9xgf% (#9)
18-19: 47.5xgf% (#24) - 19gms

With Berube

18-19: 55.9xgf% (#1) - 63gms
19-20: 50.9xgf% (#15) - 71gms
20-21: 45.8xgf% (#24) - 56gms - (lost Pietrangelo)
21-22: 48.6xgf% (#19)
22-23: 44.7xgf% (#28) - (lost ROR)
23-24: 47.2xgf% (#27) - 28gms

Post-Berube

23-24: 43.7xgf% (#30) - 54gms


His instant impact was good, but it got gradually worse over time, but then again so did his roster.
 
MindzEye said:
Yeah, I've thought about that. Where we target younger players that become future core players and go for a 4 quarters for a dollar type trade but that has upside that some of the other deals that make sense don't.

Would be an interesting way to reset the championship window tbh. Auston probably has 5-6+ years of prime prime left. Willy similar. If a Marner trade was something that brought back 20-23 yr good young player (Byfield, Lafreniere, Johnston, Michkov, Seider, etc) with some other pieces, I'm good with it not including someone who is a 1st line forward or top pairing defender right now. If you've cleared some cap with a parallel Tavares move, you have lots of dry powder left to go add free agency to sort out whatever has holes left in it after the two trades.
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Feels a bit different than last summer where you trade Nylander for a d, no questions asked because the UFA d crop was dog shit. They can think a bit more creatively here I think and be open to more possibilities as long as you trade Marner and/or JT before UFA season opens.

But it's a frightening thought to trade Marner for a bunch of B or C pieces so they better not fuck it up.
 
Preston said:
They can think a bit more creatively here
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A real damn shame about who we've got to do the creative thinking....

But yes, there are multiple winnable trades out there for Marner. I'm just not remotely confident that we're going to be looking for something that isn't a patch job to fix what they deem the roster problems to be right now.
 
Shanahan’s window is only 1 year… Leafs is longer

Firing Shanny would have aligned Auston/Nylander window with the new Prez
 
CH1 said:
What you get for Marner is more important than hiring Berube
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It's everything. The GMs here did nothing but baby the cap and trim around the edges for years. This is the most difficult trade a gm can make and it will shape the next 5+ years of where this team is headed. I'm so happy a shoe salesman is in charge.
 
If anyone is actually serious about Dubios then it has to be tavares going the other way.

Better yet:

Tavares, Kampf, crock for Dubios and Danault
 
zeke said:
Pre Berube

16-17: 51.2xgf% (#10)
17-18: 51.9xgf% (#9)
18-19: 47.5xgf% (#24) - 19gms

With Berube

18-19: 55.9xgf% (#1) - 63gms
19-20: 50.9xgf% (#15) - 71gms
20-21: 45.8xgf% (#24) - 56gms - (lost Pietrangelo)
21-22: 48.6xgf% (#19)
22-23: 44.7xgf% (#28) - (lost ROR)
23-24: 47.2xgf% (#27) - 28gms

Post-Berube

23-24: 43.7xgf% (#30) - 54gms


His instant impact was good, but it got gradually worse over time, but then again so did his roster.
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Most coaches enjoy their greatest impact on results early in their tenure before the room tunes them out.
 
CH1 said:
Shanahan’s window is only 1 year… Leafs is longer

Firing Shanny would have aligned Auston/Nylander window with the new Prez
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My opinion on Pelley isn't particularly positive at the moment, but I still think Shanahan's tenure being a matter for the next board meeting and not necessarily something within Pelley's immediate powers to decide is a theory that makes a lot of sense. President really isn't a day to day hockey ops position here, so there's no time sensitivity in dealing with it at the board meeting coming up in ~2 weeks.
 
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