Game 66, Canadiens at Devils

[WeHaveMoreCupsThanYou]

Bad teams need a way to get better. Good teams don't need any added assistance in being better.

The only thing I've heard of that can do that while eliminating tanking is when a team is mathematically eliminated, every point they get after that point gets added to their lottery points. The team with the most points after being mathematically eliminated has the best chance at the 1st overall.

The kicker in this system is a team can tank early in the season, get mathematically eliminated early on then start raking in wins.

For example, Stamkos is hurt to start the season. Tampa gets him back after the trade deadline and bam, they are back to being a elite team. Meanwhile the habs were bad all season, got mathematically eliminated at the same time but due to actually being bad, cannot win at the same rate as tampa. So there is room for abuse in that system as well.

No system is foolproof . There's always a Belichik lurking out there who's figuring out a way to game it to his own advantage. But I think we can all agree with east coast that any system which causes fans to root for losses is bad for business over the long term. Of all the imperfect alternatives I've heard of, the one you mentioned where teams which have been mathematically eliminated get closer to winning the first overall pick by winning rather than losing is easily the best of them. You wouldn't even need to make it so that a mathematical certainty of missing the post-season is a pre-requisite. You pick a date, say trade deadline day, and every team from 9th in the conference to last is officially "in" the sweepstakes from then on. Now they have to try to win in order to get the #1 pick. Of course, there's a chance that a bubble team will win "too much" and actually become a playoff team instead of a lottery team but that's the sort of outcome you should want: teams trying to win and make the playoffs. The real hopeless cases like the Habs can do what they do best: pick up meaningless points in garbage time. Only now those points won't be meaningless; they'll actually help their draft position instead of hurting it.

Reward achievement and punish failure. The NHL has always done this bass-ackwards. Crap teams in crap markets reap all the benefits while teams trying to win in markets that actually drive league revenues get shafted for their efforts. Let the half dozen fans in Arizona put up with a team that perpetually drafts 9th for a change.

 

[CaptainBolduke]

Every major North American sports league has the teams that did poorly the previous year drafting higher. This isn't unique to the NHL.

Also, - FYI the Leafs aren't a poor team. They've had plenty of high picks the last 15 years.

 

[worm]

Bad teams need a way to get better. Good teams don't need any added assistance in being better.

The only thing I've heard of that can do that while eliminating tanking is when a team is mathematically eliminated, every point they get after that point gets added to their lottery points. The team with the most points after being mathematically eliminated has the best chance at the 1st overall.

The kicker in this system is a team can tank early in the season, get mathematically eliminated early on then start raking in wins.

For example, Stamkos is hurt to start the season. Tampa gets him back after the trade deadline and bam, they are back to being a elite team. Meanwhile the habs were bad all season, got mathematically eliminated at the same time but due to actually being bad, cannot win at the same rate as tampa. So there is room for abuse in that system as well.

Hard to be eliminated early with 3 point games, etc.

I do not mind that system but I do think it limits team willing to play/develop young players in the NHL.

Also might reduce teams willing to trade players at the trade deadline, etc.

I think the current system is okay.

 

[Altair]

Hard to be eliminated early with 3 point games, etc.

I do not mind that system but I do think it limits team willing to play/develop young players in the NHL.

Also might reduce teams willing to trade players at the trade deadline, etc.

I think the current system is okay.

I do too, but I would agree it's a tankers heaven. As are all systems that reward failure.

The system I mentioned would eliminate tanking, but it would also officially kill trade deadline day, unless teams really want those late round firsts and seconds more than they want to improve their chance of winning the lottery.

As a result that leaves the young kids in the minors for a lot of organizations but at least the teams would be trying the best to win.

 

[WeHaveMoreCupsThanYou]

Trade deadline day has been officially dead for some time now. TSN no longer needs to have 2 dozen on-air personalities in studio to break down the Plekanec/Baun to Toronto for Rychel, Vasilev and a pick trade for 20 minutes.

 

[Altair]

Trade deadline day has been officially dead for some time now. TSN no longer needs to have 2 dozen on-air personalities in studio to break down the Plekanec/Baun to Toronto for Rychel, Vasilev and a pick trade for 20 minutes.

Life support. There is usually one big trade on deadline day.

McDonagh this year for example. But does NY trade him if they want to bank points for a better pick? Questionable.

 

[worm]

Trade deadline day has been officially dead for some time now. TSN no longer needs to have 2 dozen on-air personalities in studio to break down the Plekanec/Baun to Toronto for Rychel, Vasilev and a pick trade for 20 minutes.

Not really worried about the ratings.

But also not sure the trade deadline matters.

 

[GrandWazoo]

Sad state of affairs, bunch of us hoping for team to lose. I can't watch under those conditions. Include me in the bunch, too.

No league should ever come to this. Picks should be random draw among all teams, equal chance,in the first round like 2005. Only way to fix this shit. I'll keep harping.....

Or maybe we can go back to sponsoring junior teams as per pre-expansion 1967. Could it be worse? :smilewinkgrin:

Yeah, I've been a big supporter of going full random for picks as well.

 

[GrandWazoo]

Bad teams need a way to get better. Good teams don't need any added assistance in being better.

The only thing I've heard of that can do that while eliminating tanking is when a team is mathematically eliminated, every point they get after that point gets added to their lottery points. The team with the most points after being mathematically eliminated has the best chance at the 1st overall.

The kicker in this system is a team can tank early in the season, get mathematically eliminated early on then start raking in wins.

For example, Stamkos is hurt to start the season. Tampa gets him back after the trade deadline and bam, they are back to being a elite team. Meanwhile the habs were bad all season, got mathematically eliminated at the same time but due to actually being bad, cannot win at the same rate as tampa. So there is room for abuse in that system as well.

The cap insures that teams can't stay good for too long.

Short of going full random, I'd give equals chance in the lottery for all the teams missing the playoffs. No chance of abuse. What I want is teams fighting until the end to make the playoffs if possible. I hate the idea of tanking.

 

[Altair]

The cap insures that teams can't stay good for too long.

Short of going full random, I'd give equals chance in the lottery for all the teams missing the playoffs. No chance of abuse. What I want is teams fighting until the end to make the playoffs if possible. I hate the idea of tanking.

Full random would bring in the era of extended dynasties and prolonged suckitude.

Every time a elite team got a top three pick, they would flip a star making more money, thus negating the effect of a cap.

Going full random on all teams missing the playoffs would be better, but the same effect would be there. Really terrible teams that need the help wouldn't get it and would suck for many more years than they do now(hello Habs) and bubble teams that may not need the help as much would be sent over the top.

Shitty teams( hello Habs) need a way to drag themselves out of their shitty positions and have a higher chance at elite talent is the best way to do it.

And if you think fan apathy is bad now, remove any incentive to follow your team by making it fully random. Watch fans disappear while their team sticks it up.

 

[GrandWazoo]

Personally I'd rather be able to watch my team play without wishing them to lose. It sucks.
I also don't mind dynasties. Dynasties are fun and bring viewers and interest in the league.

Finally really terrible teams don't need to be rewarded, and they also don't necessarily need more help than others. I don't think that Arizona for example need more help than Montreal. Also I don't see what's wrong with giving a boost to bubble teams. Teams that are truly trying to make the playoffs should be rewarded over the ones that threw away the season early or were terribly mismanaged. We're not even mathematically eliminated from the playoffs right now, going on a winning streak would normally be fun if it wasn't for the stupid draft rules. I hate the current system but it's been gradually becoming better as the owners and fans realize the flaws of the original draft rules. I'm expecting it to become fully random for non-playoffs teams in the future, it's the direction it's going, one small step at the time.

 

[Altair]

Personally I'd rather be able to watch my team play without wishing them to lose. It sucks.
I also don't mind dynasties. Dynasties are fun and bring viewers and interest in the league.

Finally really terrible teams don't need to be rewarded, and they also don't necessarily need more help than others. I don't think that Arizona for example need more help than Montreal. Also I don't see what's wrong with giving a boost to bubble teams. Teams that are truly trying to make the playoffs should be rewarded over the ones that threw away the season early or were terribly mismanaged. We're not even mathematically eliminated from the playoffs right now, going on a winning streak would normally be fun if it wasn't for the stupid draft rules. I hate the current system but it's been gradually becoming better as the owners and fans realize the flaws of the original draft rules. I'm expecting it to become fully random for non-playoffs teams in the future, it's the direction it's going, one small step at the time.

if that's what you want, why not the gain so many points after being mathematically eliminated root?

Winning streaks =better draft pick, you can cheer for wins.

 

[CaptainBolduke]

Cheering for you team to win obviously way better.

But being able to understand the situation and having a grasp on what's better for the team you cheer for is also a good skill-set to have.

 

[Altair]

Cheering for you team to win obviously way better.

But being able to understand the situation and having a grasp on what's better for the team you cheer for is also a good skill-set to have.

Oh trust me, I cheer when the Habs lose. I'm hyped for lottery day. I hope the hockey gods have decided that we have suffered enough. After that, I'm hyped for draft day.

And then I rationally realize that MB is going to swing for the fences again in a futile effort to save his job and that probably involved grabbing a goalie and seeing if he can play center or something ridiculous like that, but until that happens I'm going to be hopeful and celebrate the losing.

 

[TheCountofMonteCristo]

The cap insures that teams can't stay good for too long.

Short of going full random, I'd give equals chance in the lottery for all the teams missing the playoffs. No chance of abuse. What I want is teams fighting until the end to make the playoffs if possible. I hate the idea of tanking.

exactly, because one team actually believes in the spirit of competition and tries to win, or as in our case, has injuries and young guys actually trying hard to impress, we get punished whereas a team like Arizona and Ottawa which never tried to win this year, get rewarded

 

[GrandWazoo]

if that's what you want, why not the gain so many points after being mathematically eliminated root?

Winning streaks =better draft pick, you can cheer for wins.

Because it penalize teams that are eliminated on their last game. It still rewards mediocrity. Plus it's too complicated and can be gamed.

 

[Altair]

Because it penalize teams that are eliminated on their last game. It still rewards mediocrity. Plus it's too complicated and can be gamed.

Teams eliminated on their last game don't need as much help as the team that finished dead last. Teams that finish dead last need help rebuilding and they won't get that by being given mediocre players.

Given a choice between what you recommend and the current system, I would much rather the current system. Tanking at least gives teams hope. Your system would literally kill teams.

 

[GEEMAN]

Teams eliminated on their last game don't need as much help as the team that finished dead last. Teams that finish dead last need help rebuilding and they won't get that by being given mediocre players.

Given a choice between what you recommend and the current system, I would much rather the current system. Tanking at least gives teams hope. Your system would literally kill teams.

Simply tweak the top 5 lottery odds , say 10% each and the remaining 50% across the remaining teams .

Plus we have seen in recent years many teams move up in the lottery regardless of record

 

[TheCountofMonteCristo]

Simply tweak the top 5 lottery odds , say 10% each and the remaining 50% across the remaining teams .

Plus we have seen in recent years many teams move up in the lottery regardless of record

yeah, that is at least an option

Under no circumstances should any team have incentive not to try and be competitive. It would be like a General saying, well we will allow this entire division to be killed just so the one behind might have a chance to take the hill back.

 

[Altair]

yeah, that is at least an option

Under no circumstances should any team have incentive not to try and be competitive. It would be like a General saying, well we will allow this entire division to be killed just so the one behind might have a chance to take the hill back.

That happens.

Strategic retreats also happen.