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New Canadian Politics Thread

Artnes said:
Tap into Line 3 in Gretna MB. That has a 760k bpd capacity
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Pipe kicks south from there into the US though. If the US didn't allow us to pass our product through (which would be fucking wild, Ukraine allowed Russian gas through it's pipes to Romania and beyond until like 3 months ago ffs), we would have to send it by rail. Could probably squeeze just enough in by rail to keep Sarnia/St Clair going if it really came to that.
 
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lecoqsportif said:
Is there any scope for cancelling the F-35 deal? Switch to a Euro platform?
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We kind of have to cancel that deal, don't we?

What in the hell is the sense of depending on the current #1 threat to our nation's sovereignty and territorial integrity to deliver us 88 state of the art fighter jets between 2026-2034, and then be dependent on them for the parts and supplies necessary to keep the fleet running?

Rip up the deal, cancel the cheques and start building a fuckton of drones instead, and get a nuclear weapons program started. And if you still need new fighter jets, go back to Saab.
 
lecoqsportif said:
Is there any scope for cancelling the F-35 deal? Switch to a Euro platform?
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Not really, no. There's only 2 European platforms that suit us, the Gripen and Eurofighter. The EF is more expensive than the F35 and not nearly the product. The Gripen's engine is American and requires export approval from the DoD anyway...so if we cancelled 80 billion dollars with them, it would be very easy for them to fuck about and block the purchase of the Gripen.

imo we have 3 options and all 3 of them suck.

1) Scrap the contract, and cobble together a fleet of used F18's. Get involved in either the European or Japanese 6th gen project and just skip 5th gen altogether

2) Spend the 80B and just cross out fingers that we're never in a position where the Americans are popping the kill switch

3) Do what the Israeli's did. Take delivery of your airframes, and rip the avionics out, put your own in. You're going to be less capable, but the Americans don't give out the really good stuff anyway and a F35 airframe with custom Canadian avionics is still going to deep dick just about anything we would potentially cross swords with anyway aside from the US itself. This would obviously be a multi billion dollar program unto itself and take a number of years, delaying their deployment.
 
LeafGm said:
and then be dependent on them for the parts and supplies necessary to keep the fleet running?
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There is going to be an international supply pool that is outside of US control fwiw. This was a major requirement of the nations who got involved in the project early. This is part of why Israel is able to rip the avionics out and install their own, the US had no mechanism to stop them from doing it.
 
MindzEye said:
There is going to be an international supply pool that is outside of US control fwiw. This was a major requirement of the nations who got involved in the project early. This is part of why Israel is able to rip the avionics out and install their own, the US had no mechanism to stop them from doing it.
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OK, great.

Do the 88 planes come from an international supply pool that's outside of US control too?
 
LeafGm said:
OK, great.

Do the 88 planes come from an international supply pool that's outside of US control too?
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I'm pretty sure our order would come from Lockheed's plant in Texas, so no.

There's two mechanisms the US could use to "control" our use of the planes. Replacement parts, but as mentioned that is relatively easy to work around. There's a few other countries manufacturing airframes, and the US has no ability to block the sale of replacement parts. The other is the avionics firmware. The US has access to a disabling feature which would shut off the avionics, which makes the plane a 400 million dollar stealth brick. But if you rip the avionics suite out and replace it with your own (or I suppose, license the one the Israeli's have built...but fuck it, if they can do it, so can we) and then that weakness is also gone.

Like I said, no good choices. Skip the F35 and fly old airframes for another generation (even sourcing them is a challenge now), pick a plane that doesn't fully suit our needs (we really only have the financial ability to run one fighter air frame) until we can either procure or get in on the development of a 6th gen, pick the EF and pay more for less plane....or go forward with the F35 purchase and either hope the US never decides to brick our planes, or spend billions more developing and building out our own custom avionics.
 
MindzEye said:
I'm pretty sure our order would come from Lockheed's plant in Texas, so no.

There's two mechanisms the US could use to "control" our use of the planes. Replacement parts, but as mentioned that is relatively easy to work around. There's a few other countries manufacturing airframes, and the US has no ability to block the sale of replacement parts. The other is the avionics firmware. The US has access to a disabling feature which would shut off the avionics, which makes the plane a 400 million dollar stealth brick. But if you rip the avionics suite out and replace it with your own (or I suppose, license the one the Israeli's have built...but fuck it, if they can do it, so can we) and then that weakness is also gone.

Like I said, no good choices. Skip the F35 and fly old airframes for another generation (even sourcing them is a challenge now), pick a plane that doesn't fully suit our needs (we really only have the financial ability to run one fighter air frame) until we can either procure or get in on the development of a 6th gen, pick the EF and pay more for less plane....or go forward with the F35 purchase and either hope the US never decides to brick our planes, or spend billions more developing and building out our own custom avionics.
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I’m less worried about the US trying to control the planes than I am about them taking our money and then never delivering the planes.

Why are we convinced that they would, when they’re currently in the process of shredding the rule of law, have demonstrated signed agreements with them are worth nothing and when the United States federal government currently doesn’t recognize Canada’s right to exist as an independent nation?

And aside from all of those concerns, why would we want to go ahead with pumping tens of billions into US’s economy with this plane purchase? With a state like Texas, of all places, being one of the prime beneficiaries?
 
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MindzEye said:
Not really, no. There's only 2 European platforms that suit us, the Gripen and Eurofighter. The EF is more expensive than the F35 and not nearly the product. The Gripen's engine is American and requires export approval from the DoD anyway...so if we cancelled 80 billion dollars with them, it would be very easy for them to fuck about and block the purchase of the Gripen.

imo we have 3 options and all 3 of them suck.

1) Scrap the contract, and cobble together a fleet of used F18's. Get involved in either the European or Japanese 6th gen project and just skip 5th gen altogether

2) Spend the 80B and just cross out fingers that we're never in a position where the Americans are popping the kill switch

3) Do what the Israeli's did. Take delivery of your airframes, and rip the avionics out, put your own in. You're going to be less capable, but the Americans don't give out the really good stuff anyway and a F35 airframe with custom Canadian avionics is still going to deep dick just about anything we would potentially cross swords with anyway aside from the US itself. This would obviously be a multi billion dollar program unto itself and take a number of years, delaying their deployment.
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Or we could just build this baby...
Arrow_2048x.jpg
 
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