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New Canadian Politics Thread

So, the traitorous Maple MAGA Quisling witch out West met with Carney today, presented him with a list of demands and threatened a “unprecedented national unity crisis” if all of her demands aren’t met within six months.

Here’s the demands and the statement she released after their meeting:


“At his request, I met with Prime Minister Mark Carney today. We had a very frank discussion in which I made it clear that Albertans will no longer tolerate the way we’ve been treated by the federal Liberals over the past 10 years. I provided a specific list of demands the next Prime Minister, regardless of who that is, must address within the first six months of their term to avoid an unprecedented national unity crisis. This includes:
  • Guaranteeing Alberta full access to unfettered oil and gas corridors to the north, east, and west
  • Repealing Bill C-69 (aka. “no new pipelines act”)
  • Lifting the tanker ban off the B.C. coast
  • Eliminating the oil and gas emissions cap, which is a production cap
  • Scrapping the so-called Clean Electricity Regulations
  • Ending the prohibition on single use plastics
  • Abandoning the net-zero car mandate
  • Returning oversight of the industrial carbon tax to the provinces
  • Halting the federal censorship of energy companies
“I also made it clear that Alberta, as owner of the resource, will not accept an export tax or restriction of Alberta’s oil and gas to the United States, and that our province is no longer agreeable to subsidizing other large provinces who are fully capable of funding themselves. Lastly, I made it clear that federal mismanagement of Jasper and Banff national parks resulted in last year’s tragic wildfire in Jasper and is endangering Banff, and the situation must be rectified immediately.

“With the federal election about to be called, I encourage all Albertans to get involved in what is likely one of the most pivotal and important elections in our nation’s history, and to support the party and candidates that have consistently advocated for freeing Alberta from federal overreach and the repeated economic attacks our province has faced from Ottawa over the past 10 years.”
 
So, the traitorous Maple MAGA Quisling witch out West met with Carney today, presented him with a list of demands and threatened a “unprecedented national unity crisis” if all of her demands aren’t met within six months.

Here’s the demands and the statement she released after their meeting:
Hate her so much
 
This is the attack they are going to use on Carney. He is getting better everyday.


View: https://x.com/bruce_arthur/status/1902827003147120826?t=aTGWkhX39s8kqfFewZI51g&s=19



Yeah, I’ve run into this exact right-wing talking point before.


“Sure Trump is crazy, but if Trudeau hadn’t been so mean and disrespectful to him, none of these tariffs or annexation threats would be happening!!”

Though now it’s slightly adapted to add in that Carney, as Trudeau’s economic advisor, is also to blame.
 
So, the traitorous Maple MAGA Quisling witch out West met with Carney today, presented him with a list of demands and threatened a “unprecedented national unity crisis” if all of her demands aren’t met within six months.

Here’s the demands and the statement she released after their meeting:

A couple of things that are fairly easy to push back on, because the Alberta wingnuts...are well, fucking wingnuts.

1) Despite 'Berta being 'Berta, there populace isn't in favour of going it alone and recent polling has them at 10% tops who are interested in integrating with the US.

2) Their oil deposits are on treaty land and the province doesn't "own" them in any way that would survive seperation. Much like any Quebec seperation likely leads to them losing land in the north to treaty rights holders, Alberta would struggle to legally claim their mostly unpopulated northern areas. If the treaty rights holders told the Federal government that they don't abide by the transfer (the treaty is specifically between the federal government and the natives of the area), the Federal government couldn't legally turn that land over to the province of Alberta as part of a separation agreement without violating the treaty.
 
Can PP skate? He probably spent his youth watching William F. Buckley Jr. on VHS.
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;)
 
So, the traitorous Maple MAGA Quisling witch out West met with Carney today, presented him with a list of demands and threatened a “unprecedented national unity crisis” if all of her demands aren’t met within six months.

Here’s the demands and the statement she released after their meeting:
Someone needs to remind Danielle that she's the Premier of Alberta, not Quebec. Her voters are irrelevant. Carney doesn't need a single one of them to win a majority.
 
I’m on board with some of those demands in the sense that they’ll be necessary to get energy to new markets. Need more pipelines and tankers off the BC coast.

A lot of it is performative bullshit, of course.
 
I’m on board with some of those demands in the sense that they’ll be necessary to get energy to new markets. Need more pipelines and tankers off the BC coast.

A lot of it is performative bullshit, of course.

and that's the real problem, the performative bullshit.

Just to walk through the demands quickly

  • Guaranteeing Alberta full access to unfettered oil and gas corridors to the north, east, and west

The Federal government doesn't have the power to do this, there are other stakeholders involved. There is also already 1Mbpd in access to the west, and access to the east through Enbridge Line 9 that ends in Montreal. What in the fuck does "unfettered" mean? Does it mean that all of the other provinces have to allow as much pipeline through their province as Alberta dictates?


  • Repealing Bill C-69 (aka. “no new pipelines act”)
Weird....for being a "no new pipelines act" the TMX expansion occurred after it was passed. What she really wants is environmental regs and indigenous communites out of the way of oil infrastructure development.
  • Lifting the tanker ban off the B.C. coast
The oil already reaches terminal in Burnaby, which is south of the environmental exclusion zone covered by the ban. Again, this is none of Alberta's fucking concern. Their oil already has terminal and tanker access for export, fuck off.
  • Eliminating the oil and gas emissions cap, which is a production cap
It's a production cap if your industry treats it like one, sure. Innovate and emit less per barrel and it's not a problem.


The rest is just screeching about oil companies having any rules placed on them at all, and that any of us care about our environment at all (the fuck do you care about single use plastics being banned ffs). She's demanding that the rest of us are forced to treat her oil industry like Alberta politicians choose to. No, get fucked.

Carney is going to politely tell her to get fucked, roll out a bunch of policy changes and investments into Canadian energy that will be popular in Alberta without coming anywhere near what her demands are and she's going to bitch and moan about it during a time we should be unified.
 
and that's the real problem, the performative bullshit.

Just to walk through the demands quickly

  • Guaranteeing Alberta full access to unfettered oil and gas corridors to the north, east, and west

The Federal government doesn't have the power to do this, there are other stakeholders involved. There is also already 1Mbpd in access to the west, and access to the east through Enbridge Line 9 that ends in Montreal. What in the fuck does "unfettered" mean? Does it mean that all of the other provinces have to allow as much pipeline through their province as Alberta dictates?


  • Repealing Bill C-69 (aka. “no new pipelines act”)
Weird....for being a "no new pipelines act" the TMX expansion occurred after it was passed. What she really wants is environmental regs and indigenous communites out of the way of oil infrastructure development.
  • Lifting the tanker ban off the B.C. coast
The oil already reaches terminal in Burnaby, which is south of the environmental exclusion zone covered by the ban. Again, this is none of Alberta's fucking concern. Their oil already has terminal and tanker access for export, fuck off.
  • Eliminating the oil and gas emissions cap, which is a production cap
It's a production cap if your industry treats it like one, sure. Innovate and emit less per barrel and it's not a problem.


The rest is just screeching about oil companies having any rules placed on them at all, and that any of us care about our environment at all (the fuck do you care about single use plastics being banned ffs). She's demanding that the rest of us are forced to treat her oil industry like Alberta politicians choose to. No, get fucked.

Carney is going to politely tell her to get fucked, roll out a bunch of policy changes and investments into Canadian energy that will be popular in Alberta without coming anywhere near what her demands are and she's going to bitch and moan about it during a time we should be unified.
Was actually just going to ask you about the current oil situation. I certainly don't have a strong knowledge base here, but have been discussing a lot of politics with a family member, and would like a better understanding of this issue. Here's the argument:

- Oil is a major natural resource for Canada and needs to be expanded because it will generate more wealth for the country - economy needs a boost. Trudeau and the Libs have been hampering this, largely for environmental reasons, and there are too many regulations. We're pretty good on carbon and the environment already compared to most countries, and the positives outweigh the negatives. I have made the argument that we are weaning off oil as quickly as possible because the climate issue is so important (he does believe in climate change), so it doesn't make sense to do anything that will take decades, but I think in the short term everything should be on the table now. The entire equation has changed with Trump, and we need to be economic ninjas for at least 4 years.

- Also there's an argument that after the invasion of Ukraine, Trudeau made a huge mistake by not selling oil to Europe who were "begging" us for it, and had to buy from the Middle East instead.

- They need more pipelines. I argue Trudeau did give them one but it's not enough and cost way too much because of environmental regulations.

I know the ability to refine our crude is limited, so what are the best options here? How hard is it to ship oil to Europe (or Japan)? Does it make economic sense? What can we do better?

From a strategic point of view, Carney offering an olive branch to the oil industry would help lower the temperature in Alberta and boost the economy. Giving him a better chance of getting elected as well.

Obviously she's not going to get everything on her list. But from a centrist point of view and realistic about the current economic situation, what (if anything) does it make sense to offer?

Try to get them a pipeline? How long will that take, and is it feasible? What about upping the production cap?
 
Was actually just going to ask you about the current oil situation. I certainly don't have a strong knowledge base here, but have been discussing a lot of politics with a family member, and would like a better understanding of this issue. Here's the argument:

- Oil is a major natural resource for Canada and needs to be expanded because it will generate more wealth for the country - economy needs a boost. Trudeau and the Libs have been hampering this, largely for environmental reasons, and there are too many regulations. We're pretty good on carbon and the environment already compared to most countries, and the positives outweigh the negatives. I have made the argument that we are weaning off oil as quickly as possible because the climate issue is so important (he does believe in climate change), so it doesn't make sense to do anything that will take decades, but I think in the short term everything should be on the table now. The entire equation has changed with Trump, and we need to be economic ninjas for at least 4 years.

- Also there's an argument that after the invasion of Ukraine, Trudeau made a huge mistake by not selling oil to Europe who were "begging" us for it, and had to buy from the Middle East instead.

- They need more pipelines. I argue Trudeau did give them one but it's not enough and cost way too much because of environmental regulations.

I know the ability to refine our crude is limited, so what are the best options here? How hard is it to ship oil to Europe (or Japan)? Does it make economic sense? What can we do better?

From a strategic point of view, Carney offering an olive branch to the oil industry would help lower the temperature in Alberta and boost the economy. Giving him a better chance of getting elected as well.

Obviously she's not going to get everything on her list. But from a centrist point of view and realistic about the current economic situation, what (if anything) does it make sense to offer?

Try to get them a pipeline? How long will that take, and is it feasible? What about upping the production cap?


Keep in mind that Trudeau spent $4.7B to buy and finish building Alberta a pipeline that, as of its opening last May, has tripled oil pipeline capacity from Alberta to the Pacific Coast. Yet Alberta far-right Conservatives like Smith basically just pretend that it never happened and all the oil industry ever gets from Ottawa is persecution.

Now to be clear, that’s not an argument against growing our oil industry. Just don’t do it expecting you’ll win over the nutters, is all.
 
Was actually just going to ask you about the current oil situation. I certainly don't have a strong knowledge base here, but have been discussing a lot of politics with a family member, and would like a better understanding of this issue. Here's the argument:

- Oil is a major natural resource for Canada and needs to be expanded because it will generate more wealth for the country - economy needs a boost. Trudeau and the Libs have been hampering this, largely for environmental reasons, and there are too many regulations. We're pretty good on carbon and the environment already compared to most countries, and the positives outweigh the negatives. I have made the argument that we are weaning off oil as quickly as possible because the climate issue is so important (he does believe in climate change), so it doesn't make sense to do anything that will take decades, but I think in the short term everything should be on the table now. The entire equation has changed with Trump, and we need to be economic ninjas for at least 4 years.

- Also there's an argument that after the invasion of Ukraine, Trudeau made a huge mistake by not selling oil to Europe who were "begging" us for it, and had to buy from the Middle East instead.

- They need more pipelines. I argue Trudeau did give them one but it's not enough and cost way too much because of environmental regulations.

I know the ability to refine our crude is limited, so what are the best options here? How hard is it to ship oil to Europe (or Japan)? Does it make economic sense? What can we do better?

From a strategic point of view, Carney offering an olive branch to the oil industry would help lower the temperature in Alberta and boost the economy. Giving him a better chance of getting elected as well.

Obviously she's not going to get everything on her list. But from a centrist point of view and realistic about the current economic situation, what (if anything) does it make sense to offer?

Try to get them a pipeline? How long will that take, and is it feasible? What about upping the production cap?


- Oil regulations are largely necessary. Trust me, as a former safety professional for a pipeline contractor, pipelines leak and spill...a lot. Oil sands product specifically is harder on pipelines than sweet crude and they run through pristine wilderness, over rivers that supply drinking water to communities, etc. With that said, there is no such thing as a short term oil infrastructure project when your supply is as ridiculously landlocked as the oil sands are. Pipelines take years to build, even if you streamlines the regulatory process because fuck clean water. I can explain that process in more detail as to why they take so fucking long, but just trust me, they do and it's not "environmental regulations" as the driving factor in that.

- Europe is a bad oil partner for us. Even if we scrap our environmental regs, they won't scrap theirs and they take our emissions into account into their purchasing. They lack the specialty refinery capacity to handle our heavy products and we would need to like....6-7x our eastward pipeline capacity (300K bpd currently) to make them our way out of this. For us to refine enough to do that for them, we're talking about 7-8 years and 40B dollars to build enough refinery capacity to bring those extra 1.5-2M bpd online. The Middle East (and Africa) are much better O&G partners for Europe in the short to medium term.

Best option is a holistic approach. A bit of everything. Back of the napkin without really understanding the minutae of each project?

Double the capacity of transmountain if possible (currently 970K bpd) would be most important imo, because Asia is our most realistic energy pivot away from the US, not Europe. Japan, China, SK, Indonesia, all huge and hungry markets. It's 1000's of km's closer to tidewater than going east, the right of ways already exist, in theory some of the environmental assessments can be grandfathered, and the political hurdles are probably significantly lesser than getting 5-6 provinces working together, including Quebec.

Add capacity to the east, an additional 600-800K bpd that doesn't go through the US is fine, but finish the pipe right to Irving in New Brunswick. If we sprinkle a couple refineries around the country (Alberta, Ontario, Irving expansions out east, etc) to be able to finish another ~1 million bpd we're probably in good shape. This would give us an energy picture of 4.3M bpd production with capacity of move just under 2M west, 1M east, and as much as we want south as needed....which would still be necessary politically because here's the thing that no one is saying right now in all of this, but it's a drum I've been beating on here for weeks: The US can't uncouple from us any easier than we can uncouple from them. We've spent 40 years integrating our oil industries together and they're as fucked as we are. We have a needle to thread here where we need to reduce dependence on the US, while at the same time being able to serve their energy needs because they're the ones without the alternatives at the end of the day.

- There are a half dozen refineries in the midwest that are set up to finish our heavy product, we are their sole supply (or nearly sole supply) of product to finish. If we stopped shipping to those refineries, they close, simple as that. There is no alternate supply for them that would necessitate those facilities staying active.

- Similarly, they have a ton of capacity in Houston set up to refine our product that used to be able to pivot between our product or Venezuelan product (which is also very heavy...and sorry, "heavy" is an industry term for a high sulphur content which needs more processing in specialized processing units that aren't common at most refineries...it doesn't actually weigh more, just higher in sulphur) and given that the Venezuelan industry is crippled due to hilarious lack of investment for a generation and brain drain, there isn't anything to pivot away to anymore.

- We.Are.Cheaper.By.Alot. Western Canadian Select is selling at 54.26 a barrel today. Slap a 25% tariff on that and you're paying 67.82 a barrel plus $3-4 pipeline rental fee per barrel. The cost of alternatives? Mexican basket is 64.02...oh, but also subject to 25% tariff....so 80 dollars a barrel plus shipping. Opec basket is 73 a barrel but then add the cost of shipping (roughly $5-7 a barrel) and you're at 78-80 bucks again....if there's no tariff on opec oil.

So what do you do? You just buy as much of the cheaper WCS as you can and pass the tariff on to your customers downstream. Simple economics is on our side here.
 
Keep in mind that Trudeau spent $4.7B to buy and finish building Alberta a pipeline that, as of its opening last May, has tripled oil pipeline capacity from Alberta to the Pacific Coast. Yet Alberta far-right Conservatives like Smith basically just pretend that it never happened and all the oil industry ever gets from Ottawa is persecution.

Now to be clear, that’s not an argument against growing our oil industry. Just don’t do it expecting you’ll win over the nutters, is all.

Yeah, a whole lot of this. Do it because it's the right thing to do, but it's not going to win you a single fucking seat. Alberta is just a different place man, all I can say.
 
- Oil regulations are largely necessary. Trust me, as a former safety professional for a pipeline contractor, pipelines leak and spill...a lot. Oil sands product specifically is harder on pipelines than sweet crude and they run through pristine wilderness, over rivers that supply drinking water to communities, etc. With that said, there is no such thing as a short term oil infrastructure project when your supply is as ridiculously landlocked as the oil sands are. Pipelines take years to build, even if you streamlines the regulatory process because fuck clean water. I can explain that process in more detail as to why they take so fucking long, but just trust me, they do and it's not "environmental regulations" as the driving factor in that.

- Europe is a bad oil partner for us. Even if we scrap our environmental regs, they won't scrap theirs and they take our emissions into account into their purchasing. They lack the specialty refinery capacity to handle our heavy products and we would need to like....6-7x our eastward pipeline capacity (300K bpd currently) to make them our way out of this. For us to refine enough to do that for them, we're talking about 7-8 years and 40B dollars to build enough refinery capacity to bring those extra 1.5-2M bpd online. The Middle East (and Africa) are much better O&G partners for Europe in the short to medium term.

Best option is a holistic approach. A bit of everything. Back of the napkin without really understanding the minutae of each project?

Double the capacity of transmountain if possible (currently 970K bpd) would be most important imo, because Asia is our most realistic energy pivot away from the US, not Europe. Japan, China, SK, Indonesia, all huge and hungry markets. It's 1000's of km's closer to tidewater than going east, the right of ways already exist, in theory some of the environmental assessments can be grandfathered, and the political hurdles are probably significantly lesser than getting 5-6 provinces working together, including Quebec.

Add capacity to the east, an additional 600-800K bpd that doesn't go through the US is fine, but finish the pipe right to Irving in New Brunswick. If we sprinkle a couple refineries around the country (Alberta, Ontario, Irving expansions out east, etc) to be able to finish another ~1 million bpd we're probably in good shape. This would give us an energy picture of 4.3M bpd production with capacity of move just under 2M west, 1M east, and as much as we want south as needed....which would still be necessary politically because here's the thing that no one is saying right now in all of this, but it's a drum I've been beating on here for weeks: The US can't uncouple from us any easier than we can uncouple from them. We've spent 40 years integrating our oil industries together and they're as fucked as we are. We have a needle to thread here where we need to reduce dependence on the US, while at the same time being able to serve their energy needs because they're the ones without the alternatives at the end of the day.

- There are a half dozen refineries in the midwest that are set up to finish our heavy product, we are their sole supply (or nearly sole supply) of product to finish. If we stopped shipping to those refineries, they close, simple as that. There is no alternate supply for them that would necessitate those facilities staying active.

- Similarly, they have a ton of capacity in Houston set up to refine our product that used to be able to pivot between our product or Venezuelan product (which is also very heavy...and sorry, "heavy" is an industry term for a high sulphur content which needs more processing in specialized processing units that aren't common at most refineries...it doesn't actually weigh more, just higher in sulphur) and given that the Venezuelan industry is crippled due to hilarious lack of investment for a generation and brain drain, there isn't anything to pivot away to anymore.

- We.Are.Cheaper.By.Alot. Western Canadian Select is selling at 54.26 a barrel today. Slap a 25% tariff on that and you're paying 67.82 a barrel plus $3-4 pipeline rental fee per barrel. The cost of alternatives? Mexican basket is 64.02...oh, but also subject to 25% tariff....so 80 dollars a barrel plus shipping. Opec basket is 73 a barrel but then add the cost of shipping (roughly $5-7 a barrel) and you're at 78-80 bucks again....if there's no tariff on opec oil.

So what do you do? You just buy as much of the cheaper WCS as you can and pass the tariff on to your customers downstream. Simple economics is on our side here.
Yeah the vote thing may be a "pipe" dream, although every vote counts. Looking moderate is not a bad thing for Carney right now, standing strong as a country is crucial and it signals that we're all in this together. But really the main driver of what we do now is the economics.

So a pipeline to New Brunswick, are you saying it's partially built or is this Alberta to NB? Are the Eastern provinces okay to make some money or are they against this idea? How big are environmental hurdles?

From what you're saying our #1 goal should be transmountain to Asia. How do we feel about selling to China?

Ultimately this all makes sense to me. I do think it would be wise for Carney to propose some of these ideas, I assume you agree?
 
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