No Excuses No Limits! The mother fucking goddamn season thread

[Preston]

McCabe (at his contract he might have more value than Matheson did), a 2nd and stuff would be pretty weak. I think they'd be able get a niemela on top of that right now too. Or Minten. They have reasons to do it now but that doesn't mean Conroy agrees with them. There is a case tho.

 

[MindzEye]

McCabe (at his contract he might have more value than Matheson did), a 2nd and stuff would be pretty weak.

Well, it's that + 4 years of Weegar's prime vs 1st and stuff now

Exactly why we want him (he's very good and the contract is pretty reasonable for the next 2-4 years) is why Calgary would probably just rather keep him for the next 2-4 years short of someone overpaying for him. The optics of him being the good part of the Tkachuk return, Conroy's bosses (and local politicians) spending a billie on a new facility, etc also plays into it from the Calgary side.

This is all very, very wishful thinking on our part imo in thinking that Calgary would be dumping Weegar at this point more or less because that would be the most opportune outcome for us. When at the same time they have a full half of their blueline that they are looking to move on from.

If we don't want what they're actually selling, cool, I can get behind not giving a fuck that Hanifin, Tanev, and Zadorov are for sale. But I highly doubt that Weegar is for sale unless we're willing to blow our brains out and make it worth Calgary's time.

 

[CH1]

If I'm the Flames GM, I stay optimistic (most GMs, especially ex players, are hard wired to do so) as I check my notes and see my team is 4 points out of a wild card spot with 66 games left in the season. And I have one the best goalie prospects in the game.

Not that I won't make trades, but they will be hockey trades, not white flag waving affairs

 

[Preston]

Well, it's that + 4 years of Weegar's prime vs 1st and stuff now

Exactly why we want him (he's very good and the contract is pretty reasonable for the next 2-4 years) is why Calgary would probably just rather keep him for the next 2-4 years short of someone overpaying for him. The optics of him being the good part of the Tkachuk return, Conroy's bosses (and local politicians) spending a billie on a new facility, etc also plays into it from the Calgary side.

This is all very, very wishful thinking on our part imo in thinking that Calgary would be dumping Weegar at this point more or less because that would be the most opportune outcome for us. When at the same time they have a full half of their blueline that they are looking to move on from.

Oh I agree it's the least likely scenario. To be clear I'm just saying I'm firmly on the side of "if they get a d from Calgary it's Weegar or bust." I'd be tolerant to tanev depending on who they give up but I'm not particularly erect over it. Andersson is an even bigger pipe dream. So if the Leafs don't want to commit that term to Weegar and/or if Calgary prefers to dump the younger Hanifin instead, then yeah I'd probably move on and look elsewhere.

And I have flip flopped on this a bit. I was more open to tanev before I realized they only sucked defensively because of Klingberg. Now I feel like they'd be short selling guys like McCabe and Liljegren if they feel they need to grab another #4. I'm just worried they're undervaluing their current d corps and doing the grass is greener on the other side thing with the Calgary guys.

 

[MindzEye]

If I'm the Flames GM, I stay optimistic (most GMs, especially ex players, are hard wired to do so) as I check my notes and see my team is 4 points out of a wild card spot with 66 games left in the season. And I have one the best goalie prospects in the game.

Not that I won't make trades, but they will be hockey trades, not white flag waving affairs

Calgary will be the market makers of the deadline. No sense at all to do anything until then unless it's at a premium. Lindholm will be the best forward likely available, Hanifin, Tanev, and Zadorov all at different levels of desirability for teams as well.

 

[Preston]

The one singular argument for tanev would be that we know McCabe failed in the toughs last playoff. Maybe just maybe tanev would fare better. But he sure wouldn't improve the pool of offensive inept d. Two way horse should be the goal.

 

[CH1]

Oh I agree it's the least likely scenario. To be clear I'm just saying I'm firmly on the side of "if they get a d from Calgary it's Weegar or bust." I'd be tolerant to tanev depending on who they give up but I'm not particularly erect over it. Andersson is an even bigger pipe dream. So if the Leafs don't want to commit that term to Weegar and/or if Calgary prefers to dump the younger Hanifin instead, then yeah I'd probably move on and look elsewhere.

And I have flip flopped on this a bit. I was more open to tanev before I realized they only sucked defensively because of Klingberg. Now I feel like they'd be short selling guys like McCabe and Liljegren if they feel they need to grab another #4. I'm just worried they're undervaluing their current d corps and doing the grass is greener on the other side thing with the Calgary guys.

I'm not even sure the Leafs are doing the grass is greener thing as much as "you can never have too many solid d-men on your team"

most contenders become d-men hoarders at the deadline

The rash of injuries has left the Leafs looking ahead of schedule

 

[leafman101]

Unless you are solid on Benoit/Lagesson/Timmins at the very least they need at least one D.

I wouldn’t mind pushing Gio down to #7 either. He’s been fine away from Klingberg, but we’ve already seen him run out of gas once.

 

[Preston]

I'm not even sure the Leafs are doing the grass is greener thing as much as "you can never have too many solid d-men on your team"

most contenders become d-men hoarders at the deadline

They already have a lot of solid d. Adding 2 more would be borderline insanity. They're missing from the top end, not their depth. Especially since one of the rumored people is a 4m dollar bottom pair guy. Insanity.

Grab a single top pair guy and everyone moves down a slot. Same thing as Edmonton did last year, Boston 2 years ago with Lindholm, etc. suddenly your depth "deficiencies" are fixed.

 

[CH1]

hard not to go insane as GM. (see Reeves)

Looking forward to the first NHL team to hire an AI GM

 

[zeke]

I guess we disagree that Weegar's contract is particularly onerous. I doubt Calgary sees it that way currently.

I swear to god i was the only one in the world to think it was a solid contract a month ago.

That's part of my point. That he's stuck with them makes other moves far less useful as standalone moves. Why bother trading Weegar for random "value" (aka, a 1st and stuff) when you're already pot committed to Kadri & Huberdeau? Your best bet is to retool in that situation, not rebuild because you kind of can't rebuild. He's already more or less forced into a fair amount of roster change this summer, just lean into that and see what you can turn that cap and assets into.

Fundamentally, I think that you're forgetting Conroy's marching orders simply don't include a tear down/tank right now with a 1+ Billion dollar facility under construction. His bosses are telling him to compete, he won't be able to sell them a rebuild.

how is re-tooling an aging bad team going to work?

We know he's been trying to sign Lindholm and Hanifin and I imagine he needs to find capspace somewhere to do that.

 

[leafman101]

And I think Hanifin is getting a bit overlooked. By Doms model he would have been our #2 d last year, and brings that offense we don’t really get from anyone outside Rielly.

Tanev is more of what we already have though.

 

[LeafOfFaith]

Only concern with Weegar is cost. They're not giving him up cheap. Are we willing to trade Knies/Robertson/Cowan level prospects?

Not me. And, serious question, when are top young prospects ever being traded anyway, other than in a real hockey trade rather than a dump by a team that’s out of it?

 

[MindzEye]

Not me. And, serious question, when are top young prospects ever being traded anyway, other than in a real hockey trade rather than a dump by a team that’s out of it?

Weegar would be a real hockey trade and not a dump though, that's my point. Top prospects are kind of a fixture in real hockey trades.

 

[leafman101]

I think Weegar is probably a pipe dream, but if he’s moved it’s a no brainer. Not sure how many better D than Weegar will be moved this year.

 

[LeafOfFaith]

Of everyone on Calgary, I’d chase Lindholm the hardest. Make the forwards unstoppable since they’re close to being that anyway, and we’re not even seeing a couple of our best guys break out yet.

You could always add another cheaper short term dman. Doesn’t have to be a true first pairing guy, but it would be awesome to get both.

 

[LeafOfFaith]

Weegar would be a real hockey trade and not a dump though, that's my point.

Yes and no. The only reason they’d be trading him is because they feel the rest of his term won’t be spent with the team being truly competitive. It would still be a dump. Otherwise they wouldn’t be trading him at all with all that term left.

 

[MindzEye]

I swear to god i was the only one in the world to think it was a solid contract a month ago.

The last few years are obviously risky (which I think was my original take, as it is with all of those contracts that run past 34-35 yrs old) but I don't think 6.25 was considered a bad spend for him over the next few years by many people at all.

how is re-tooling an aging bad team going to work?

You're missing the point.

We know he's been trying to sign Lindholm and Hanifin and I imagine he needs to find capspace somewhere to do that.

So trade Weegar instead of trading Tanev and Zadorov? Makes sense.

 

[MindzEye]

Yes and no. The only reason they’d be trading him is because they feel the rest of his term won’t be spent with the team being truly competitive. It would still be a dump. Otherwise they wouldn’t be trading him at all with all that term left.

That's the thing, they're not trading him. This is all wishful thinking from Toronto fans. Which I sympathize with and wish was true/likely, but it's just not.

Anyone is for sale, but if we want Weegar it's a hockey trade, not a salary dump.

 

[LeafOfFaith]

That's the thing, they're not trading him. This is all wishful thinking from Toronto fans. Which I sympathize with and wish was true/likely, but it's just not.

Anyone is for sale, but if we want Weegar it's a hockey trade, not a salary dump.

Yeah, agreed. They’re not trading him. It makes no sense with Kadri and Hubie stuck there.