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No Excuses No Limits! The mother fucking goddamn season thread

leafman101 said:
And I think Hanifin is getting a bit overlooked. By Doms model he would have been our #2 d last year, and brings that offense we don’t really get from anyone outside Rielly.
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That's where I think Hanifin gets overrated and a guy like Weegar gets underrated though.

Here's 5v5 offense this year and last (season+playoffs):

Rielly: 92gms, 7gls, 35pts (82gms, 6gls, 31pts)
Timmins: 27gms, 2gls, 9pts (82gms, 6gls, 27pts)
Andersson: 91gms, 8gls, 28pts (82gms, 7gls, 25pts)
Weegar: 97gms, 6gls, 30pts (82gms, 5gls, 25pts)
Klingberg: 85gms, 7gls, 24pts (82gms, 7gls, 23pts)
Hanifin: 97gms, 6gls, 27pts (82gms, 5gls, 23pts)
Zadorov: 97gms, 14gls, 25pts (82gms, 12gls, 21pts)
McCabe: 97gms, 3gls, 23pts (82gms, 3gls, 19pts)
Giordano: 105gms, 3gls, 24pts (82gms, 2gls, 19pts)
Brodie: 85gms, 2gls, 18pts (82gms, 2gls, 17pts)
Liljegren: 82gms, 5gls, 13pts (82gms, 5gls, 13pts)
Tanev: 81gms, 1gls, 12pts (82gms, 1gls, 12pts)

And PP per 60 stats

Timmins: 31min, 5.77p1/60, 7.70p/60
Rielly: 248.45min, 2.90p1/60, 5.07p/60
Andersson: 264min, 2.50p1/60, 5.00p/60
Klingberg: 214.84min, 1.96p1/60, 3.35p/60
Hanifin: 201min, 2.39p1/60, 3.29p/60
Weegar: 98min, 1.85p1/60, 3.08p/60
Liljegren: 42.70min, 1.41p1/60, 2.81p/60
Tanev: 19min, 0.00p1.60, 3.26p/60
Zadorov: 20min, 0.00p1/60, 3.06p/60
Giordano: 62.34min, 0.96p1/60, 1.93p/60
McCabe: 7.85min, 0.00p1/60, 0.00p/60
Brodie: 9.21min, 0.00p1/60, 0.00p/60
 
Im not sold on brodie. He looks sofaking slow out there. Worried about some matchups if he continues to be that guy b
 
Like in leafland we have a great team and it's all "we gotta shake up the (young) core".

But in calgary stuck in non-playoffs hell they want to retool around their aging core? doesn't make any sense.
 
zeke said:
brad was being mocked for this signing and nobody wanted this contract until...wait, i''m not sure anyone does.
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Preston in Oct '22: Yeah that's real cheap for a top tier matchup guy. 2nd pair money. Should be very cheap/discounted for at least the first half of the contract. Not sure the Flames care as much about the back half.. their time is now.

WP in Oct '22: he's like their Muzz, I guess. so yeah, not crazy AAV. term is a little much. Alberta surtax.

Zeke in June '23: Had a good year in calgary but not quite as great as he looked in Florida. $6.25m for 8 years starting at age 29 next year thru age 36. I'm definitely tempted but only because the cap should rise in a big way before he hits his heavy decline years. it's a big risk.


Also Zeke: "Why am I the only one who unconditionally loves the idea of everything Weegar?????"
 
zeke said:
Like in leafland we have a great team and it's all "we gotta shake up the (young) core".

But in calgary stuck in non-playoffs hell they want to retool around their aging core? doesn't make any sense.
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Only in Toronto is attendance (and revenue) unconditional to the product on the ice.

Only in Toronto could we build 1+ billion dollar billion with no other stakeholders and have no financial qualms regarding the performance of the team at the time.

Only in Toronto can "optics" fuck right off if the organization chooses that's the way forward.
 
zeke said:
Tanev and Zadorov are irrelevant. These are depth players.
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That's the point. You asked where the Lindholm & Hanifin cap space would come from. There's 8.25 million sitting there on, as you put it, irrelevant hockey players. Why trade Weegar to clear cap space when you have 2 million more than Weegar's cost tied up in irrelevant players?
 
zeke said:
That's where I think Hanifin gets overrated and a guy like Weegar gets underrated though.

Here's 5v5 offense this year and last (season+playoffs):

Rielly: 92gms, 7gls, 35pts (82gms, 6gls, 31pts)
Timmins: 27gms, 2gls, 9pts (82gms, 6gls, 27pts)
Andersson: 91gms, 8gls, 28pts (82gms, 7gls, 25pts)
Weegar: 97gms, 6gls, 30pts (82gms, 5gls, 25pts)
Klingberg: 85gms, 7gls, 24pts (82gms, 7gls, 23pts)
Hanifin: 97gms, 6gls, 27pts (82gms, 5gls, 23pts)
Zadorov: 97gms, 14gls, 25pts (82gms, 12gls, 21pts)
McCabe: 97gms, 3gls, 23pts (82gms, 3gls, 19pts)
Giordano: 105gms, 3gls, 24pts (82gms, 2gls, 19pts)
Brodie: 85gms, 2gls, 18pts (82gms, 2gls, 17pts)
Liljegren: 82gms, 5gls, 13pts (82gms, 5gls, 13pts)
Tanev: 81gms, 1gls, 12pts (82gms, 1gls, 12pts)

And PP per 60 stats

Timmins: 31min, 5.77p1/60, 7.70p/60
Rielly: 248.45min, 2.90p1/60, 5.07p/60
Andersson: 264min, 2.50p1/60, 5.00p/60
Klingberg: 214.84min, 1.96p1/60, 3.35p/60
Hanifin: 201min, 2.39p1/60, 3.29p/60
Weegar: 98min, 1.85p1/60, 3.08p/60
Liljegren: 42.70min, 1.41p1/60, 2.81p/60
Tanev: 19min, 0.00p1.60, 3.26p/60
Zadorov: 20min, 0.00p1/60, 3.06p/60
Giordano: 62.34min, 0.96p1/60, 1.93p/60
McCabe: 7.85min, 0.00p1/60, 0.00p/60
Brodie: 9.21min, 0.00p1/60, 0.00p/60
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Doms not only measuring production though.

1700342948944.png

He’s one of the best transition dmen in the NHL, which is where the leafs got crushed against the panthers.

1700342706545.png1700342829279.png1700342737769.png
 
MindzEye said:
Only in Toronto is attendance (and revenue) unconditional to the product on the ice.

Only in Toronto could we build 1+ billion dollar billion with no other stakeholders and have no financial qualms regarding the performance of the team at the time.

Only in Toronto can "optics" fuck right off if the organization chooses that's the way forward.
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optics? really?

what are the optics of being locked into an aging non-playoffs roster?
 
MindzEye said:
Zeke in June '23: Had a good year in calgary but not quite as great as he looked in Florida. $6.25m for 8 years starting at age 29 next year thru age 36. I'm definitely tempted but only because the cap should rise in a big way before he hits his heavy decline years. it's a big risk.
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But! This does seem consistent with his stance that Calgary maybe should consider trading him and that he shouldn't cost THAT much! If the flames and the rest of the league see that contract as high risk then that would make them more inclined to trade him and it would drive down his value.

I'm not quite there.. I think he'd cost a Minten/Niemela (tier 2+ prospect), McCabe (#3d on bargain deal) and maybe a 1st if the flames are even thinking of trading him which is unlikely. But in zeke's defense that take wasn't completely inconsistent with his takes today.

Ultimately the disagreement stems from what his rep actually is around the league. I think it's somewhere in between stud #1 that requires Knies/Robertson/Cowan in return and a liability contract. And theres a lot of space in between those things! Where exactly that lies, I'm not as sure.
 
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zeke said:
optics? really?

what are the optics of being locked into an aging non-playoffs roster?
Click to expand...

1) Weegar was traded for Tkachuk
2) Calgary is currently building an esssspensive new facility and ownership (who cried poor to the city/province for years) expects the team to be competitive.

It's not just about the team on the ice. The expectation is that they be locked into an aging playoff roster, and Conroy's job is to deliver that, not to blame the previous admin for hamstringing him and tear it down.

Before more incredulity about this being a thing, remember that as much as we pan JFJ here for his performance as Leaf GM, he went to the board with a rebuilding plan when we were an aging non playoff team and they told him to fuck off and make it work. Happens all the time.
 
Preston said:
But! This does seem consistent with his stance that Calgary maybe should consider trading him and that he shouldn't cost THAT much! If the flames and the rest of the league see that contract as high risk then that would make them more inclined to trade him and it would drive down his value.

I'm not quite there.. I think he'd cost a Minten/Niemela (tier 2+ prospect), McCabe (#3d on bargain deal) and maybe a 1st if the flames are even thinking of trading him which is unlikely. But in zeke's defense that take wasn't completely inconsistent with his takes today.

Ultimately the disagreement stems from what his rep actually is around the league. I think it's somewhere in between stud #1 that requires Knies/Robertson/Cowan in return and a liability contract. And theres a lot of space in between those things! Where exactly that lies, I'm not as sure.
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Switch McCabe for Timmins, and remove Minten but give Niemela and yeah, that’s the trade.
 
MindzEye said:
1) Weegar was traded for Tkachuk
2) Calgary is currently building an esssspensive new facility and ownership (who cried poor to the city/province for years) expects the team to be competitive.

It's not just about the team on the ice. The expectation is that they be locked into an aging playoff roster, and Conroy's job is to deliver that, not to blame the previous admin for hamstringing him and tear it down.

Before more incredulity about this being a thing, remember that as much as we pan JFJ here for his performance as Leaf GM, he went to the board with a rebuilding plan when we were an aging non playoff team and they told him to fuck off and make it work. Happens all the time.
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I think Weegar was more the sweetener on top of Huberdeau. It’s misleading to say he was traded for Tkachuk.
 
LeafOfFaith said:
I think Weegar was more the sweetener on top of Huberdeau. It’s misleading to say he was traded for Tkachuk.
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A 28 yr old #1-2 defender is more than just a sweetener. It's not misleading at all to say he was traded for Tkachuk, I never suggested that was all Tkachuk was traded for, I know full well that everyone on this forum knows exactly what Tkachuk was traded for.
 
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