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No Excuses No Limits! The mother fucking goddamn season thread

Thing is most teams "shelter" their 2nd line, because usually the 2Cs are good offensively but not much defensively.

But we don't have to shelter our 2nd line. Or our 1st line. Or even our 4th line.
 
Maybe Timmy figures it out but it was tough watching him play well in the regular season only to crumble during the playoffs
 
I think they should get the best F and D they can without giving up anything nuts. Patches isn’t a top 9 player anymore.

Though I would give up top prospects/picks for a legit top pairing D.

They should try to get Bunting back for shitry AHLers Dubas likes.
 
I think the thing that bugs me about adding a 3C is that there;s a very good chance we end up downgrading our offensive depth by doing that instead of upgrading it. i.e. by kicking robby out of the lineup.
 
zeke said:
I think the thing that bugs me about adding a 3C is that there;s a very good chance we end up downgrading our offensive depth by doing that instead of upgrading it. i.e. by kicking robby out of the lineup.
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which would be hilarious cause offensive depth has been a long-running issue for this team in the playoffs
 
If you guys can help me figure out who actually plays center most of the time for the top teams i'll try and crunch some numbers.

TOR

1. Matthews 13:56, -4.2dzs%, 53.6xgf% (+2.5rel), 2.01ap/60
2. Tavares 14:13, +0.3dzs%, 52.0xgf% (+1.7rel), 2.12ap/60
3. Domi 12:20, -2.7dzs%, 49.7xgf% (+0.4rel), 1.63ap/60
4. Kampf 10:33, +8.0dzs%, 46.5xgf% (-1.0rel), 0.92ap/60


i.e. a team like Vegas is a bit confusing. I'm pretty sure all of Eichel Karlsson Hertl Roy are in their top-9 but not sure who actually plays C. I'm pretty sure Schwindt is their regular 4C. I would've thought that Hertl was the one playing wing but he's taken the 2nd most faceoffs on the team. then again that might just be cuz he's really good at faceoffs but is actually really playing wing.

VGK

1. Eichel 15:05, -2.2dzs%, 51.2xgf% (0.0rel), 2.42ap/60
2. Karlsson 13:40, -1.5dzs%, 56.3xgf% (+5.8rel), 1.49ap/60 / Hertl 13:25, -3.6dzs%, 52.8xgf% (+1.8rel), 1.14ap/60
4. Roy 13:09, +5.7dzs%, 50.2xgf% (-0.9rel), 1.50ap/60
5. Schwindt 9:05, -2.8dzs%, 50.7xgf% (+1.0rel), 0.82ap/60

a team like FLA i think is more straightfoward

FLA

1. Barkov 13:37, -2.2dzs%, 60.1xgf% (+5.3rel), 2.14ap/60
2. Bennett 13:52, -4.8dzs%, 52.5xgf% (-1.6rel), 1.63ap/60
3. Lundell 12:57, -4.5dzs%, 51.5xgf% (-1.3rel), 1.94ap/60
4. Nosek 8:11, -4.7dzs%, 61.0xgf% (+5.7rel), 0.59ap/60


These would be considered some of the deeper C groups in the league, but even then I'm not sure Domi doesn't compare to some of them.

But also notice that the Leafs use their #1, #2, and #4 centers more than those teams, and uses their 4C in much much tougher usage.

And you could say i guess that they're using the 4C in tougher usage cuz they don't like the 3C, but they're paying Kampf specifically for his defense so i don't think it's a surprise that they're using him that way. And they sure seem to have built that whole line to be a trustworthy line defensively in tough matchups, so i don't know that they'd end up lightenint their load much even with a big 3C upgrade. Unless of course Kampf goes out as part of that 3C upgrade, which i'm sure none of us would mind.

But i'm not sure there's many deeper C groups than those two there to compare to. Arguably Dallas, but even when healthy i'm not sure they were happy with Johnston at C and were using him more on the wing. And now that Seguin is out longterm, Johnston has permanently moved into a top-6 wing spot and it's been guys like Bourque and Steel playing 3C, so that's not a 3C slot that Domi looks bad against either.
 
You look at teams like CAR or WPG and you might say 'yeah we need a 3C like Staal or Lowry like they have' except in reality Staal and Lowry are their 2Cs, and their nominal "2Cs" are guys like Kotkaniemi and Namestnikov who are no great shakes defensively and are sheltered and aren't as producitve as Domi.

NJ has a guy like Haula as 3C. TB has a rotating cast of nobodies, though they will probably try to add a winger at the deadline and push Nick Paul to 3C.

MIN has seen marco rossi explode this year, but they're still trotting out a mediocrity like Gaudreau as 3C. EDM has old man Henrique there. If LA is still using Byfield as 3c he certainly isn't doing great there. COL has a guy like mittelstadt who is weak defensively and not really more productive than Domi playing 2C. I don't even know who their 3C is. Parker Kelly maybe?
 
MindzEye said:
This remains incorrect.

Ferraro-Lilly take the toughs. Ceci is Walman's babysitter, similar to how he was used with Rielly in Toronto.

Defensive zone starts/60

Liljegren: 9.92 (2nd)
Ceci: 7.57 (5th)

Defensive zone faceoffs/60

Liljegren: 19.73 (2nd)
Ceci: 17.69 (5th)
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I guess the toughs don’t mean kucherov or the last 7 minutes of a one goal game.
 

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Cherry pick whatever isolated example you want, but Liljegren faces a more defensively skewed workload with a pairing mate who faces opposition top competition. If Warsofsky chose to use Ferraro-Ceci to protect a lead, sure whatever. That doesn't change that Liljegren has been on Ferraro's pairing for most of the time since he arrived in San Jose, and that is San Jose's primary match up pairing. Nobody has argued that Liljegren is their go to shutdown guy, Ferraro is. But Liljegren has been the guy taking the tough matchups with Ferraro since the trade, not Ceci...who like I said, is primarily Walman's babysitter at 5 on 5.
 
ok so thanks for all the help guys thanks to you i was able to cobble together a list of #2 and #3 centers from the good teams:


1736815027077.png
 
So Domi is underrated, but also the last two cup winners had bid advantages down the middle (Lundell/Bennett and (Karlsson/Stephensson, whichever was 3C).

I assume Tampa too with Gourde.
 
I think it is pretty rare for teams to have 3 top 6 centers. But when teams do they tend to do well. That’s why we were so excited about Matthews/JT/Kadri and adding ROR.
 
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