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One or two excuses & probably quite limited! The "ah fuck, here we go again" playoff thread

Cojo said:
Woll is built for the playoffs. He is a technically sound goalie which works well in the playoffs where the games are tighter, a lot of perimeter shots, and tips where positional play is important

His game may not translate the best in the regular season when there is a lot of east/west plays requiring acrobatic saves but he will still always have solid numbers here too.

I’ve been a huge fan of his since the world juniors and I knew we had something. We need a coach that sticks with him and it’s going to pay off
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Fuck, Cojo called dibs on him before anyone.
 
Preston said:
I think Woll can absolutely have as good of a career as maybe half of those goalies. I'm not saying he will or that he's for sure good enough to win a cup with. But I don't value Khudobin, Jones, Hill, Binnington, Kuemper, or even MAF as highly. I see a bunch of guys with fairly attainable career arcs. Of course I'm coming at this under the viewpoint that outside of some heaters, Fleury was very overrated throughout his career. The others, meh. I don't see what's so difficult about matching them.
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I mean, this is at least kind of crazy and I think, again, comes down to this weird idea of randomness you guys chalk up goaltending to be.

- Khudobin, by his 23-25 yr old seasons established himself as a ~.920 AHL starter (over about 100 starts) who was stuck behind Thomas & Rask in Boston. This is probably the closest comparable track record, and it's a firm step ahead of Woll's imo

- from ages 20-22 Jones established himself as a top goaltending prospect with 3 years as a high end AHL starter, almost 140 games of .920. These development reps matter a lot. At 23-24 was a good backup for the Kings, and at Woll's current age put up a 65 game .918 with a deep playoff run. Woll might die if we tried to play him 65 games.

- Binnington was a bit average his first few years in the AHL (20-24) but went full out elite at 24, and then followed it up at 25 with another elite AHL season that turned into 32 games of .927 in the second half in the NHL and then the cup run.

- MAF...c'mon dude, at least share your meth.

- Kuemper probably the closest track record for durability purposes. But Kuemper was flat out elite when he played pre NHL. WHL elite, AHL elite. Stalled out mid career with durability issues (conky's) in, but after he has established himself at 23-25 yrs old as a NHL backup/1B

I guess my issue with Woll is that outside of 1 season at 24, and in less than 30 games, he's never actually been really good at any level he's played. I know goaltending is weird, but that weirdness has limits. You have to squint really hard and let 21 AHL games do a lot of heavy lifting to make an argument that he was anything but the distant last among the group you just named before they cracked the NHL full time.
 
zeke said:
Also - he was at .916 through the first 15gms before getting that injury. Then, after missing almost 3 months, he came back and posted an .890 over a scattered 10gms. Though now add a .964 in the playoffs. So since his injury return, that's 12 starts - 1st 6: .884, Last 6: .922.
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Cool, but availability is part of your ability. Dude has always struggled to stay healthy.
 
MindzEye said:
I mean, this is at least kind of crazy and I think, again, comes down to this weird idea of randomness you guys chalk up goaltending to be.

- Khudobin, by his 23-25 yr old seasons established himself as a ~.920 AHL starter (over about 100 starts) who was stuck behind Thomas & Rask in Boston. This is probably the closest comparable track record, and it's a firm step ahead of Woll's imo

- from ages 20-22 Jones established himself as a top goaltending prospect with 3 years as a high end AHL starter, almost 140 games of .920. These development reps matter a lot. At 23-24 was a good backup for the Kings, and at Woll's current age put up a 65 game .918 with a deep playoff run. Woll might die if we tried to play him 65 games.

- Binnington was a bit average his first few years in the AHL (20-24) but went full out elite at 24, and then followed it up at 25 with another elite AHL season that turned into 32 games of .927 in the second half in the NHL and then the cup run.

- MAF...c'mon dude, at least share your meth.

- Kuemper probably the closest track record for durability purposes. But Kuemper was flat out elite when he played pre NHL. WHL elite, AHL elite. Stalled out mid career with durability issues (conky's) in, but after he has established himself at 23-25 yrs old as a NHL backup/1B

I guess my issue with Woll is that outside of 1 season at 24, and in less than 30 games, he's never actually been really good at any level he's played. I know goaltending is weird, but that weirdness has limits. You have to squint really hard and let 21 AHL games do a lot of heavy lifting to make an argument that he was anything but the distant last among the group you just named before they cracked the NHL full time.
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Not gonna find many goalies on that list that put up a QS% of .488 in their playoff career. I can't say he's not at least a little overrated when you're putting up that kind of statistic. Extreme volatility, extremely unpredictable, but yes he had some heaters which is what I'm hoping Woll can pull off! Matt Murray by comparison is at .640, Freddy .560, Vas .627, Samsonov .450, Woll 1.00 (obviously, what a fucking steal). He got a bit overhyped for me. No other goalie with that reputation has a qs% below 50%. That's wild.
 
Preston said:
Not gonna find many goalies on that list that put up a QS% of .488 in their playoff career. I can't say he's not at least a little overrated when you're putting up that kind of statistic.
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"career" is a bit of a weird work to use when we're talking about 4 starts, no?
 
MindzEye said:
"career" is a bit of a weird work to use when we're talking about 4 starts, no?
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Talking about Fleury and referring to your list of goalies, not Woll. I'm on a new topic now. I got bored of the Woll thing and goalie philosophy, we'll never agree.
 
Preston said:
Talking about Fleury and referring to your list of goalies, not Woll. I'm on a new topic now. I got bored of the Woll thing and goalie philosophy, we'll never agree.
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I wouldn't say never

in your still being developed biopic, your last words are "Mindz was right about everything"
 
I remember Mindz looked at Woll's stats a few years ago and "rightly" concluded that he was a nothing prospect, because he hadn't been good since college. And many of us agreed.

But at some point he figured it out. Save % at every stop from 2021-NOW below. Add in pedigree and work ethic, and this is absolutely a guy who can be a good goalie. If M.E. wants to make the argument that he won't have a GREAT career, okay, but that's irrelevant in the here-and-now small sample of this year's playoff run.

.911
.907
.932
.927
.907
.973
.964
 
And of course, if he does fall apart for a couple of games, I wouldn't be surprised if Samsonov came back with a vengeance because #Goalies.
 
axlsalinger said:
I remember Mindz looked at Woll's stats a few years ago and "rightly" concluded that he was a nothing prospect, because he hadn't been good since college. And many of us agreed.

But at some point he figured it out. Save % at every stop from 2021-NOW below. Add in pedigree and work ethic, and this is absolutely a guy who can be a good goalie. If M.E. wants to make the argument that he won't have a GREAT career, okay, but that's irrelevant in the here-and-now small sample of this year's playoff run.

.911
.907
.932
.927
.907
.973
.964
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I mean, can y'all at least put the amount of games played next to the sv% numbers?
 
Legit wondering if Mindz knew when the Leafs won that he'd be spending the next day combing over goalie stats to defend his argument that Joseph Woll cant win you a cup on his own, or, that said comment would be taken way too seriously by another poster and said poster would sort of dunk on him just enough where he felt the need to defend himself.
 
MyNameIsJonas said:
Legit wondering if Mindz knew when the Leafs won that he'd be spending the next day combing over goalie stats to defend his argument that Joseph Woll cant win you a cup on his own, or, that said comment would be taken way too seriously by another poster and said poster would sort of dunk on him just enough where he felt the need to defend himself.
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Nobody took anything too seriously except Mindz. And then you and others started trolling and egging him on.

He went to some trouble saying that Woll has a crap resume, and so we shouldn't consider him an option in goal. That's what was said. I said he looked pretty good and should be a legit option.

So, after two great performances with basically zero playoff experience, while coming in mid-series facing elimination from the get-go, I simply asked if Mindz changed his opinion on him. I wasn't dunking on anybody. But Mindz never changes, he just digs in even more, and so it starts to look silly. That's why he can't even crack a smile when Knies kicks ass, or Tavares posts fantastic xgf stats. Nothing matters once he's taken a negative stance on a player.
 
LeafOfFaith said:
Nobody took anything too seriously except Mindz. And then you and others started trolling and egging him on.

He went to some trouble saying that Woll has a crap resume, and so we shouldn't consider him an option in goal. That's what was said. I said he looked pretty good and should be a legit option.

So, after two great performances with basically zero playoff experience, while coming in mid-series facing elimination from the get-go, I simply asked if Mindz changed his opinion on him. I wasn't dunking on anybody. But Mindz never changes, he just digs in even more, and so it starts to look silly. That's why he can't even crack a smile when Knies kicks ass, or Tavares posts fantastic xgf stats. Nothing matters once he's taken a negative stance on a player.
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In fairness, 2 games shouldn't change his mind! That would be dumb.
 
Preston said:
In fairness, 2 games shouldn't change his mind! That would be dumb.
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Sure, but when he's busy counting every minor league game he ever played, while disregarding 40+ NHL regular season and playoff games, as though those count the same, especially these last two, which are pretty amazing for a guy in his position here, then maybe it's time to show some flexibility. Especially, as you pointed out, all these other goalies who unexpectedly went on to win cups in recent years.
 
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