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OT: American Politics

Wayward DP said:
I'm saying it's hearsay and the truth is likely not as you have depicted
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Yeah, it's probably some kid showing up to school dressed weird, the teacher is like "don't pick on other kids for dressing weird, everyone is allowed to do that they want," and some parents being like "OMG teacher trying to turn all kids trans".
 
UWHabs said:
Yeah, it's probably some kid showing up to school dressed weird, the teacher is like "don't pick on other kids for dressing weird, everyone is allowed to do that they want," and some parents being like "OMG teacher trying to turn all kids trans".
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I've had this happen with my dad, where he's all up in arms about such and such woke nonsense. Then it turns out that the cause of his ire either did not occur, or did not occur as described.

The kitty litter in schools is a great example.
 
I mean there are clearly big problems in the woke/dei universe. We're seeing it on full display with the treatment of Jews on campuses since October 7. It goes without saying that diversity, equity and inclusion are all good things, but the premise seems to be to categorize everyone into buckets based on race, gender, sexuality, and then decide which ones are "oppressed" and which ones are "oppressors" and treat the entire group accordingly, and that includes treating the "oppressors" in a manner that would not been deemed acceptable by reasonable people. Which is what the Nazi's did. It was one of their first steps. And I guess its no surprise that the new generation of definers of races/genders also hates jews.

And it has been exported from the universities into the corporate world. At my office, in October, the HEAD of diversity wore a keffiyeh on a call.
Its not promoting diversity and inclusion, but racism and exclusion. I am not sure why Jews always have to be the canary in the coal mine, but just look. Jews are being excluded from campuses, refused service at businesses, jewish businesses are attacked, shuls are targeted with protests and vandalism, jewish neighbourhoods are being targeted with protests and intimidation, jewish schools are being targeted, of course none of which have anything to do with Isreal's government or war. Most of my jewish friends have had the conversation "where do we go when shit hits the fan" in a very non hypothetical manner. And its not because of the Charlottesville crowd.

Its funny, because when I was a kid I just assumed that when our generation took over there wouldn't be racism/sexism/any discrimination anymore because we are so clearly all the same. Living in such a multicultural society like Canada/America its just so obvious. But its gone the complete opposite direction.
 
leafman101 said:
I mean there are clearly big problems in the woke/dei universe. We're seeing it on full display with the treatment of Jews on campuses since October 7. It goes without saying that diversity, equity and inclusion are all good things, but the premise seems to be to categorize everyone into buckets based on race, gender, sexuality, and then decide which ones are "oppressed" and which ones are "oppressors" and treat the entire group accordingly, and that includes treating the "oppressors" in a manner that would not been deemed acceptable by reasonable people. Which is what the Nazi's did. It was one of their first steps. And I guess its no surprise that the new generation of definers of races/genders also hates jews.

And it has been exported from the universities into the corporate world. At my office, in October, the HEAD of diversity wore a keffiyeh on a call.
Its not promoting diversity and inclusion, but racism and exclusion. I am not sure why Jews always have to be the canary in the coal mine, but just look. Jews are being excluded from campuses, refused service at businesses, jewish businesses are attacked, shuls are targeted with protests and vandalism, jewish neighbourhoods are being targeted with protests and intimidation, jewish schools are being targeted, of course none of which have anything to do with Isreal's government or war. Most of my jewish friends have had the conversation "where do we go when shit hits the fan" in a very non hypothetical manner. And its not because of the Charlottesville crowd.

Its funny, because when I was a kid I just assumed that when our generation took over there wouldn't be racism/sexism/any discrimination anymore because we are so clearly all the same. Living in such a multicultural society like Canada/America its just so obvious. But its gone the complete opposite direction.
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People like having someone to hate, gotta join the crowd in picking a group and discriminating against them.
 
leafman101 said:
I mean there are clearly big problems in the woke/dei universe. We're seeing it on full display with the treatment of Jews on campuses since October 7. It goes without saying that diversity, equity and inclusion are all good things, but the premise seems to be to categorize everyone into buckets based on race, gender, sexuality, and then decide which ones are "oppressed" and which ones are "oppressors" and treat the entire group accordingly, and that includes treating the "oppressors" in a manner that would not been deemed acceptable by reasonable people. Which is what the Nazi's did. It was one of their first steps. And I guess its no surprise that the new generation of definers of races/genders also hates jews.

And it has been exported from the universities into the corporate world. At my office, in October, the HEAD of diversity wore a keffiyeh on a call.
Its not promoting diversity and inclusion, but racism and exclusion. I am not sure why Jews always have to be the canary in the coal mine, but just look. Jews are being excluded from campuses, refused service at businesses, jewish businesses are attacked, shuls are targeted with protests and vandalism, jewish neighbourhoods are being targeted with protests and intimidation, jewish schools are being targeted, of course none of which have anything to do with Isreal's government or war. Most of my jewish friends have had the conversation "where do we go when shit hits the fan" in a very non hypothetical manner. And its not because of the Charlottesville crowd.

Its funny, because when I was a kid I just assumed that when our generation took over there wouldn't be racism/sexism/any discrimination anymore because we are so clearly all the same. Living in such a multicultural society like Canada/America its just so obvious. But its gone the complete opposite direction.
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the false binary of 'oppressed' and 'oppressor' is definitely problematic and concerning. I don't know that I attribute this directly to wokeness/DEI but appreciate the potential overlap. I do agree though that the (far?) left are the ones generally leading the charge to cancel Jews which is gross and bigoted.

and agreed about the impact this is having on Jews everywhere. I've also had the 'where do we go' conversation and it fucking sucks. getting squeezed on both extremes.
 
Preston said:
I have my own issues with wokeness.. namely just one thing. I think comedy is worse off. But it doesn't really impact me or my quality of life at all. I'm always interested to know how it impacts others. Not to judge them, but to understand where they're coming from. Still haven't gotten a great answer but maybe lof can woo me. ;)
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I don't think woke affected comedy all that much. It mostly broke Chappelle who can't stop talking about how hard his job has become, but he was probably due to break again, since he was initially broken decades ago when he walked away from his $50M Comedy Central gig.

I'm not sure this is "wokeness" but it seems adjacent enough, so I will list the following as my issue with it.

I've personally been in debates where the side that is offended the most is championed as the winner, regardless of historical data and well reasoned analysis. Feelings are paramount. Victims are almost always the the good guys (their own actions don't matter, neither do the intentions of the other)

It's not just a dynamic I've witnessed personally...I've seen it scale out to society at large. If you're offended enough, you're basically jumping out to a 3-0 lead from the get go.
 
It may have affected some comics both trying too hard be woke and trying too hard to be anti-woke , but there are plenty of that just dont give a fuck.

Shane Gillis' recent special is one of the funniest things I've ever seen.
 
CH1 said:
I don't think woke affected comedy all that much. It mostly broke Chappelle who can't stop talking about how hard his job has become, but he was probably due to break again, since he was initially broken decades ago when he walked away from his $50M Comedy Central gig.

I'm not sure this is "wokeness" but it seems adjacent enough, so I will list the following as my issue with it.

I've personally been in debates where the side that is offended the most is championed as the winner, regardless of historical data and well reasoned analysis. Feelings are paramount. Victims are almost always the the good guys (their own actions don't matter, neither do the intentions of the other)

It's not just a dynamic I've witnessed personally...I've seen it scale out to society at large. If you're offended enough, you're basically jumping out to a 3-0 lead from the get go.
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my quick addition to the above:

*unless you are a Jew, in which case non-Jews get to tell you how you should respond to things

anti-racist principles (i.e. focus on how your actions are perceived by the minority group, not your intent) do not apply to Jews because... reasons.
 
CH1 said:
I don't think woke affected comedy all that much. It mostly broke Chappelle who can't stop talking about how hard his job has become, but he was probably due to break again, since he was initially broken decades ago when he walked away from his $50M Comedy Central gig.

I'm not sure this is "wokeness" but it seems adjacent enough, so I will list the following as my issue with it.

I've personally been in debates where the side that is offended the most is championed as the winner, regardless of historical data and well reasoned analysis. Feelings are paramount. Victims are almost always the the good guys (their own actions don't matter, neither do the intentions of the other)

It's not just a dynamic I've witnessed personally...I've seen it scale out to society at large. If you're offended enough, you're basically jumping out to a 3-0 lead from the get go.
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I mean yes it broke Chappelle in that way but I was speaking more towards movies. There are movies that were made just 15-20 years ago that would never get made today; full stop. Agree it didn't necessarily impact stand up comedy though. There is an audience for everyone and everything and those guys can keep doing their thing and hold their own niche fanbases.
 
Wayward DP said:
my quick addition to the above:

*unless you are a Jew, in which case non-Jews get to tell you how you should respond to things

anti-racist principles (i.e. focus on how your actions are perceived by the minority group, not your intent) do not apply to Jews because... reasons.
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Jews were historical victims but now they are doing pretty well for themselves (fully deserved of course) so now how they have to play Defence
 
Preston said:
There are movies that were made just 15-20 years ago that would never get made today; full stop. Agree it didn't necessarily impact stand up comedy though.
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Maybe. I think blockbuster movie comedies also died because they don't travel to lucrative international markets as well as IP fuelled action and superhero movies.
 
CH1 said:
Jews were historical victims but now they are doing pretty well for themselves (fully deserved of course) so now how they have to play Defence
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economically sure. antisemitism has always been a problem though. it's just way worse now than at any point previously in our lives.
 
CH1 said:
Maybe. I think blockbuster movie comedies also died because they don't travel to lucrative international markets as well as IP fuelled action and superhero movies.
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Seth Rogan has talked about how things have changed and getting studio approval for certain scenes or even scripts is not what it once was. He has mentioned that there is zero chance in hell Superbad would get made in 2024. Now perhaps there is some financial reasoning there as well, but whatever the case, whether it's wokeness (or Hollywood preferring to play it safe) or the financial aspect I don't like it!!! Presto sad!!
 
Preston said:
Seth Rogan has talked about how things have changed and getting studio approval for certain scenes or even scripts is not what it once was. He has mentioned that there is zero chance in hell Superbad would get made in 2024. Now perhaps there is some financial reasoning there as well, but whatever the case, whether it's wokeness (or Hollywood preferring to play it safe) or the financial aspect I don't like it!!! Presto sad!!
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I agree with that.

"might be offensive" has become a genre that big Hollywood won't touch and is sadly relegated to amateur story tellers like Bar Stool
 
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