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OT: American Politics

Wayward DP said:
this misses the main thrust of the objection though. no one is disputing that there was an assassination attempt, or that he was shot at, or I don't think even that he was in close proximity to bullets.

but reporters taking the convicted felon, rapist, likely narcissistic sociopath at his word is just absurd and if they're already getting rolled like this when he's a candidate, doesn't bode well for what's to come either.

that, and don't the voters deserve to hear from a medical professional whether allegedly having an AR bullet inches from the dude's brain has at all impacted his health. if he has some sort of injury or condition from the shooting the voters should know. likewise if not.
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Problem is, if Trump ever approved a medical statement going out, it would be so full of nonsense and hyperbole it would be useless.
 
manny said:
Problem is, if Trump ever approved a medical statement going out, it would be so full of nonsense and hyperbole it would be useless.
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Still kind of misses the point though. It's about making him feel forced to adhere to norms. If he does so fraudulently, like he does everything else, cool. But at least put the thought in his head that he's expected to adhere to sets of rules and norms. Put that thought into the head of people around him, and everyone else.

I think it's being a bit overlooked that part of the reason he's so dangerous is how easily American society has let him just bypass it all, and now everyone just shrugs their shoulders "ah, he's not going to listen anyway, so why bother trying to get him to"?

A Trump who is constantly being hounded by the media every time he sets a toe over the line is far, far less dangerous than this one approached apathetically by fucking everyone about fucking everything.
 
MindzEye said:
The way that his entire grouping questions events is kind of dangerous. Not that questioning events in of itself is dangerous, but how simplistic their assumptions of the world are while doing it, is. None of his thoughts and questions are actually original, they're all generated by the right wing information echosystem he inhabits. In their world there's no such thing as expertise, there's no such thing as rules. Every little thread they can pull at to unravel people's faith in society and it's institutions get pulled at and it all ends with a polticial and societal nihilism that authoritarians thrive in (this is literally the Kremlin book on how to create a passive and apolitical populace fwiw and has been for decades, inB4 'lolz russia hoax').

The only way to deal with that imo is combatting it directly with accurate information. There are a lot of people susceptible to their mode of "thought" but what is bullshit has to be called out as bullshit. Do I expect to change his mind? No, not a fucking chance. But I answer shit like that so that someone else reading it here (our lurkers are a much bigger group than our posters) who see one of his questions and think it makes sense, get the issue answered with relevant and accurate information and isn't persuaded by shitty open ended questions with an inferred conspiratorial answer.
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You may have missed my joke…

But I agree fully with what you’re saying notwithstanding. I like open dialogue, and also enjoy differing viewpoints. I don’t actually think it’s nice or totally fair, the punishment you guys are doling out against him. This is a very liberal forum, not many conservative viewpoints articulated, and generally not many are tolerated by others. I’m always finding myself in the middle because I just can’t fully agree with either extreme.
 
It's more center-left. Beleafer was the extremist. He was the flyguy of the left (and oddly enough, many of their views are likely identical).

Some do veer closer to the left and others like ch1 and probably myself closer to the center. Don't think I've seen extremism here. Part of the problem is that people have pushed so far right that center-left is now considered extremism.
 
I mean, around here I mostly read people terrified that trump's cronies are going to steal a country, something we watched them try once (right?),
I see less people saying we should ban all guns and allow abortions after birth than I see people scared of a possible tyrant in the white house.

In a normal world that would sound crazy yes, but where have you been the last few years?
 
LeafOfFaith said:
I don’t actually think it’s nice or totally fair, the punishment you guys are doling out against him. This is a very liberal forum, not many conservative viewpoints articulated, and generally not many are tolerated by others.
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A couple of things though...

1) I don't know what type of treatment you're expecting for someone when they post deeply uninformed shit like tweets from Donald Trump Jr.

2) While I agree to a certain extent on the conversative viewpoint bit, the conversations tend to gravitate around matters of fact, policy, etc. Most of the 'very liberal' people here aren't necessarily partisan aside from by necessity of having to choose from an imperfect selection of leaders.

3) Most of the conservative viewpoints we've dealt with over the years have either been from complete racist wingnuts (alfamale, johnny, etc), complete fucking characatures (KB, etc) or people we've found some common ground with and actually helped see the inaccuracies in their worldview at the time (Habsy, etc). I can only speak for myself here, but I'm open to having my mind changed. It just takes more than "trans bad groomers" for me to not see LGBTQ rights as human rights, etc. The "conservative viewpoint" has a really bad habit (with decades of examples now) of being on the wrong side of history, human rights, and factuality. Most of their major ideological focal points over the last 60-70 years have just been wrong. Opposition to Civil Rights & Gay rights, trickle down economics, deregulation, anti union, etc, etc. All bad policy or bad ideology.
 
Bleedsblue&white said:
It's extreme to believe that trump wants to be an autocrat?
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Which of the following preemptively declined to accept election results, prompted dozens of legal and administrative tricks to change the outcome of an election and then orchestrated a violent sacking of the Capitol when all that failed?

Reagan
Mondale
Dukakis
Bush Sr
Bubba
Dole
Dubya
Gore
Kerry
Barry
McCain
Romney
Hilldog
Trump

Hint: There’s just one right answer.
 
Preston said:
It's more center-left. Beleafer was the extremist. He was the flyguy of the left (and oddly enough, many of their views are likely identical).

Some do veer closer to the left and others like ch1 and probably myself closer to the center. Don't think I've seen extremism here. Part of the problem is that people have pushed so far right that center-left is now considered extremism.
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Average, middle of the road presto.
 
Preston said:
It's more center-left. Beleafer was the extremist. He was the flyguy of the left (and oddly enough, many of their views are likely identical).

Some do veer closer to the left and others like ch1 and probably myself closer to the center. Don't think I've seen extremism here. Part of the problem is that people have pushed so far right that center-left is now considered extremism.
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I'm probably closest to being a pro market scandinavian style social democrat. I like intelligently regulated markets (pushing the societal costs of private profits down onto the populace is bullshit, the price of goods should include all understood externalities...for example, polution), I like urbanism (efficient transit, walkable urban areas, public over private spaces, etc) and I like examining all of the costs of having a permanent economic underclass and investing the money differently to counteract it. The direct cost of a homeless person to canadian society is 56K. The cost to throw them in jail is 90K. The cost to give them a fucking place to live and food is 35K......
 
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MindzEye said:
I'm probably closest to being a pro market scandinavian style social democrat. I like intelligently regulated markets (pushing the societal costs of private profits down onto the populace is bullshit, the price of goods should include all understood externalities...for example, polution), I like urbanism (efficient transit, walkable urban areas, public over private spaces, etc) and I like examining all of the costs of having a permanent economic underclass and investing the money differently to counteract it. The direct cost of a homeless person to canadian society is 56K. The cost to throw them in jail is 90K. The cost to give them a fucking place to live and food is 35K......
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Pretty much my vibe.
Righties think I’m hopelessly left and because I’m data driven the lefties think I’m a cold hearted capitalist.
 
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