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OT: American Politics

FlyGuy said:
I've embraced traditionally blue platforms this cycle, even if they're not the focus of dem's any more fwiw. Better regulation of drinking water, food, pharmaceuticals, anti-war, etc.
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defluorination =/= better regulation of drinking water, as a starting point...
 
MindzEye said:
I was actually giving pollster too much credit apparently. I was just suggesting that at worst they understood the data and the models well enough to set the models up to produce the results they wanted. Instead they actually didn't know the data that well and were getting survey results in that they couldn't make work they way they wanted, so they played with the models to reverse engineer the results they wanted to sell.

We've gone from greasy to pure fraud.
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there's a pattern to the trumpy shenanigans. usually, it's worse than we expected or imagined. suspect the gaming of the polls will be in the same category when all is said and done
 
Wayward DP said:
(the economy is fucking fantastic)
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(It's not).

(Try asking someone in the 18-30 demographic about how much they are able to save and how they're able to live right now)

(Spending $500 on groceries every week and not being able to afford a house or childcare is not fantastic).
 
FlyGuy said:
The spending is credit/debt spending, though. People are making more, but not at the rate at which costs/inflation have gone up. Inflation has realllly hit the poor/lower middle-class badly. It advantages the rich the most.
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Actually middle class wages have risen faster than inflation.

But yes, inflation sucks, and the fact that it is under control now doesn't change the fact that there was a huge and sudden price shock a couple years ago that effected everyone. That's definitely an issue for many still, but in the end that's just one economic data point amongst many, and the thing about the economy is that you can't really convince people that they're economically desperate when they aren't. No matter how much you tell them the economy is bad, if they're still easily able to afford stuff (and spending on leisure and entertainment proves that they can), they'll never feel that economic punch on the gut level it needs to be to be the prime issue.

Also, for what economic pain there really is, you gotta be sure that most people blame Biden/Harris for that, and I don't think they do.



FlyGuy said:
And I just simply disagree that the urgent, baby-killing healthcare is 1. As commonplace as implied and 2. Commonly rejected. I know you'll provide anecdotal stories now. Regardless, it's a state issue. It needs to be, and mostly has been and will continue to be if it really is an issue, addressed at the state level at the direction of what the local population wishes. It is an emotional issue that the left has supercharged well to distract from the tough economic time we're in/going into.
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You're refusing to understand the reality tho. Abortion bans mean that women of childbearing age simply do not have the same freedoms as everyone else. These aren't anecdotes - these are actual laws which prevent them from getting all sorts of normal, important health treatments that are available to everyone else, but not to them, even if they just MIGHT be pregnant. This is them being second class citizens, with fewer freedoms than you have. THAT is why it's such a big deal to women. Not because they really want to be able to murder as many babies as they can.

FlyGuy said:
Mark my words, as soon as whichever person wins, the real economic data is going to start dropping. They've slowly been pulling back GDP estimates to start to prepare people. And that GDP is driven by government spending, just like jobs data is driven by government jobs. It's not a recipe for success. You can't spend your way out of economic slowing.
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But this is entirely backwards. GDP estimates have been laughably low for the vast majority of the Biden presidency, just up unil late last summer. Economic projections continually said a recession was incoming, and the economy kept easily beating all those projections.

Q2 GDP smashed the estimates - coming in at 3% when estimates were around 2%. This resulted in a Q3 estimate of around 3%, which yes the first Q3 measuremnts have come in slightly lower at 2.8%.

As for spending your way out of economic slowing - yes you absolutely can. And this has been proven without a doubt over past 15 years - nations that spent their way out of the 2009 and Covid crashes are crushing it economically, while nations that tried to respond instead with austerity measures all killed their economies and are still trying to recover.


But again - the idea that economic forecasts have been generous to Biden and bullshit PR for his admin is the exact opposite of the truth - his economy has smashed all the projections, for years now. The economic forecasts are actually more responsible for his negative economic approval than the actual economy is.
 
FlyGuy said:
(It's not).

(Try asking someone in the 18-30 demographic about how much they are able to save and how they're able to live right now)

(Spending $500 on groceries every week and not being able to afford a house or childcare is not fantastic).
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what benchmarks can we use to judge the success of the american economy as a whole?

there are for sure structural/systemic issues that continue to fuck over young people, especially ones trying to enter the housing market. I've been there.

but on what metric, or metrics, are you evaluating the economy and saying it sucks? cause most just raw data points currently say the opposite
 
one thing I reluctantly agree with Flyz, is that the economy is not "fantastic"

yes, it's quite a bit better than anyone expected, a recession was avoided...but it's not working for everyone

rents and housing prices are too damn high
 
FlyGuy said:
www.ewg.org

EWG's Tap Water Database: What's in Your Drinking Water?

Look up your local water system to find out which pollutants might be of concern, and find suggestions on the best kinds of home filters to remove those chemicals.
www.ewg.org www.ewg.org
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okay, so I'm glad you care about having good quality drinking water (assumption here, feel free to tell me otherwise).

this is something that we agree upon - we should try to regulate drinking water, to keep it safe.

so, who makes the regulations? how do we decide upon them? I'm happy to rely upon the EPA, who will rely upon experts in the field.

who do you want to rely upon, and why?
 
CH1 said:
one thing I reluctantly agree with Flyz, is that the economy is not "fantastic"

yes, it's quite a bit better than anyone expected, a recession was avoided...but it's not working for everyone

rents and housing prices are too damn high
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eh both can be true.

objectively, the American economy is outperforming all its peers and leading the world in growth.

at the same time, it's not working for everyone. rents and housing prices are too damn high.
 
Wayward DP said:
okay, so I'm glad you care about having good quality drinking water (assumption here, feel free to tell me otherwise).

this is something that we agree upon - we should try to regulate drinking water, to keep it safe.

so, who makes the regulations? how do we decide upon them? I'm happy to rely upon the EPA, who will rely upon experts in the field.

who do you want to rely upon, and why?
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I should also add, I'm happy to pressure the EPA to make the regulations stronger and tougher.
 
CH1 said:
one thing I reluctantly agree with Flyz, is that the economy is not "fantastic"

yes, it's quite a bit better than anyone expected, a recession was avoided...but it's not working for everyone

rents and housing prices are too damn high
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the economy is never great for everyone! there are always people who are struggling to make ends meet. the issue is whether the economy is bad enough for enough people to make it the most significant election issue....and whether the blame for that economic hardship is placed on one party more than the other.

and housing prices being too damn high isn't something that just happened in the last 4yrs.
 
FlyGuy said:
www.ewg.org

EWG's Tap Water Database: What's in Your Drinking Water?

Look up your local water system to find out which pollutants might be of concern, and find suggestions on the best kinds of home filters to remove those chemicals.
www.ewg.org www.ewg.org
Click to expand...

www.ewg.org

EWG's Tap Water Database: Contaminants in Your Water

We've compiled a list of every contaminant that has been detected in tap water nationwide. Find out what's in your water.
www.ewg.org www.ewg.org

Its funny because the areas with the highest fluoride content (above the recommended level based on science - significantly in some cases) are all red states. Texas, New Mexico, Arizona, and one Chuch owned utility in LA. weird.
 
We had the clean water convo here about a year ago when FlyGuy was touting RFK complete with links to all the reports about the EPA/clean water regs Trump rolled back.
 
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