WeHaveMoreCupsThanYou
I will get banned again soon, worry not.
It's an oath to uphold the Constitution, something Trump will actively try to destroy on Day One.
OT: American Politics
- Thread starter MindzEye
- Start date
WeHaveMoreCupsThanYou
I will get banned again soon, worry not.
Smith should leak everything and then Biden should pardon him.
thehabhater
Some call me Tim
Fun fact
If by a hail Mary, and the Dems keep the house. Once Trump swears to uphold constitution, and promptly tries to do anything constitutional...
He will become the first president to be impeached 3 times.
FlyGuy
Well-known member
Please give me an example of a civil servant that this will happen to.
A president is elected to enforce the laws. If people in government are disobeying how he wants them enforced, he should be able to replace them.
Wayward DP
Well-known member
FlyGuy
Well-known member
I'm surprised #7 charted that high. That's funny.
Swing voters that went Trump also did not take her or her candidacy seriously. Not surprised. She lacked a sense of authority, even confidence a lot of the time.
Wayward DP
Well-known member
Here is a link to an explainer on the proposal.
I will note:
Trump has announced his intention to reissue Schedule F “on day one” of his next administration. During his first term, government employees were frequent targets of public insults, threats, and retaliation. Echoing Trump, other elected officials have advocated “fir[ing] every single mid-level bureaucrat” and made campaign promises to begin “slitting [bureaucrats’] throats on day one.”
As scholars at the American Enterprise Institute have stated, “[Trump] has made it clear in countless ways that, if he were to win the presidency again, he would expect total loyalty — from cabinet secretaries down to the most junior agency employees.”
this demonstrates a misunderstanding of how the civil service operates. civil servants are supposed to be independent from government. they are loyal to the constitution, not an individual.
if civil servants are disobeying the law, they can be fired with cause - that's how things currently operate.
Trump is trying to change that, so that he can say, "I'm telling you to ignore this law and if you do not do it, I will replace you with someone who will". In his first term, the civil servants could tell him to get bent. now, they get replaced with lackeys.
it's actually the exact opposite of what you claim to support. you want the President to be able to overrule the laws and constitution, I want them to be forced to respect them.
leafman101
Well-known member
With Trump’s Victory, Schools Offer ‘Post-Election Wellness Spaces’
Canceled classes, erased grades, and individual counseling: Universities rush to console their ‘grieving’ students.
www.thefp.com
The border became a big problem for a lot of people once they started realizing it wasn't just the southern US dealing with it. The democrat narrative of not criminalizing illegal aliens in hopes of turning them into citizens and getting their votes eventually backfired. As it should have. In this day and age, a country should not need to be debating the need to defend its borders.
The economic impact of this was finally felt by a large enough group of individuals to turn the tide.
The economic impact of this was finally felt by a large enough group of individuals to turn the tide.
thehabhater
Some call me Tim
Wayward DP
Well-known member
I gotta say, this really sticks in my craw. university campuses have tolerated folks screaming about killing Jews for over a year, but all of a sudden they're cancelling classes because of... err... election results?With Trump’s Victory, Schools Offer ‘Post-Election Wellness Spaces’
Canceled classes, erased grades, and individual counseling: Universities rush to console their ‘grieving’ students.
FlyGuy
Well-known member
I'm trying to understand this but I'll be honest a lot is still going over my head. How are civil servants independent from government when they are paid from taxpayer money? That doesn't make sense.
Anyone on taxpayer payroll is loyal to the citizens of the country. If the citizens elect Trump, and he has the power to fire people not enforcing laws how he says to enforce them, then it sounds logical to me.
The presidents job is explicitly to implement and enforce laws. If someone doesn't do it how he directs then yes, fire them.
FlyGuy
Well-known member
Lol one guy I listened to said that psychiatrists are going to make a killing after this election. He's rightWith Trump’s Victory, Schools Offer ‘Post-Election Wellness Spaces’
Canceled classes, erased grades, and individual counseling: Universities rush to console their ‘grieving’ students.
Wayward DP
Well-known member
sorry, I should have been clearer.
the federal civil service is nonpartisan. that's what I meant when I said independent.
having loyalty pledges to one individual, instead of the constitution, will undo that.
civil servants are not supposed to be political operatives - they just enforce and follow the law without fear or favour. that's how it currently works - which you've already indicated is how you think it should. so it's working fine now.
Trump is proposing to undo that and make the civil service an arm of the Republican party. this is about Trump wanting civil servants to place his desires and interests over the requirements of the constitution.
it pretty much comes down to are you loyal to the constitution, or to him? cannot be both.
worm
Well-known member
Yep.
Going to be a lot of therapy needed for husbands that lost their wife because they couldn't have an abortion, immigrants that had family deported, lost jobs, etc
FlyGuy
Well-known member
FlyGuy
Well-known member
I guess I view it from the lens of constant obstruction to Trump during his last admin. I wonder if this schedule F this is a necessity to get around unions and if it's hard to fire them otherwise.
Regardless, the official who is voted in to carry out the will of the people (and explicitly implement and enforce laws) gets precedent over unelected civil servants. They can get fucked. If this loyalty bs or whatever is needed as a way to more easily put people in place that carry out the will of the people then have at it. They're civil servants (loyal to the people paying their wages) and if they go against what the people voted for then to hell with them.
UWHabs
Well-known member
You do not elect a King. He should not have absolute power over everything. Civil servants are another level of check and balance that should remain.
Wayward DP
Well-known member
examples?
unless by obstruction you mean "following the law"
this sounds to me like you're saying loyalty to Trump is more important than loyalty to the constitution.
you would rather a civil servant be fired for obeying the law if Trump feels differently. because again, to be clear, currently all civil servants must follow the law, without fear or favour. sounds like you want to water that down, and introduce fear and favour. that's how you undermine rule of law.
do you appreciate how devastating it would be for your civil service to be completely overhauled and replaced following each and every election where power changes hands?
there is a reason that in most developed countries, they have nonpartisan civil services. and why autocracies have party loyalists.