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OT: American Politics

FlyGuy said:
I guess I view it from the lens of constant obstruction to Trump during his last admin. I wonder if this schedule F this is a necessity to get around unions and if it's hard to fire them otherwise.

Regardless, the official who is voted in to carry out the will of the people (and explicitly implement and enforce laws) gets precedent over unelected civil servants. They can get fucked. If this loyalty bs or whatever is needed as a way to more easily put people in place that carry out the will of the people then have at it. They're civil servants (loyal to the people paying their wages) and if they go against what the people voted for then to hell with them.
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So are you cool with each administration replacing 44,000 civil servants each cycle?

Do you think you might lose any "institutional knowledge"?

Maybe you want your government to always be playing catchup
 
FlyGuy said:
Please give me an example of a civil servant that this will happen to.

A president is elected to enforce the laws. If people in government are disobeying how he wants them enforced, he should be able to replace them.
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"Disobeying how he wants them enforced" sounds like something a person would say about Saddam Hussein. You support this unequivocally, no questions asked?
 
Pwner said:
So are you cool with each administration replacing 44,000 civil servants each cycle?

Do you think you might lose any "institutional knowledge"?

Maybe you want your government to always be playing catchup
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A lot of stuff will be tied up in courts because these people, who are cycling through, won’t know what they are doing.
 
Wayward DP said:
examples?

unless by obstruction you mean "following the law"

this sounds to me like you're saying loyalty to Trump is more important than loyalty to the constitution.

you would rather a civil servant be fired for obeying the law if Trump feels differently. because again, to be clear, currently all civil servants must follow the law, without fear or favour. sounds like you want to water that down, and introduce fear and favour. that's how you undermine rule of law.

do you appreciate how devastating it would be for your civil service to be completely overhauled and replaced following each and every election where power changes hands?

there is a reason that in most developed countries, they have nonpartisan civil services. and why autocracies have party loyalists.
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You have a more romanced view of government employees than I do. I think that's the difference here.
 
UWHabs said:
He's stated he wants to be authoritarian. He wants to prosecute his opponents. Project 2025 states that they want oaths of fealty from civil servants. He's stated about not having to worry about voting again. If it quacks like a duck...
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He also stated he would lock up Hillary throughout that campaign and then gave her a rosy public thanks the very night of his acceptance speech.
 
Wayward DP said:
can you point to an example where folks are not relying upon statements made by Trump himself, his campaign officials, or positions outlined in Project 2025?
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It has been stated thousands of times in this thread that everything Trump says is bullshit. He has proven in the past that most of what he says is bullshit. But this king stuff is for real? Even if it is, Trump is not going to topple democracy in the US. The notion of it is honestly absurd.
 
I know ya'all don't have the patience, but in a couple years most of our points will have been proven.
Some will take longer, but there will be some recalcitrance going on I am sure.
 
LeafOfFaith said:
It has been stated thousands of times in this thread that everything Trump says is bullshit. He has proven in the past that most of what he says is bullshit. But this king stuff is for real? Even if it is, Trump is not going to topple democracy in the US. The notion of it is honestly absurd.
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his acolytes, who are gonna be the cabinet secretaries and minions running his government, sure seem to think he's serious about "mass deportation now", for starters.

so do the stock markets, for that matter.
 
Bleedsblue&white said:
I understand that mentality...I'm curious though, did you think Jan 6th happening was boogey-man level before?
Before it happened of course.
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No, I admit I didn't think something like that would happen. We're seeing in recent years (especially around the world with the Israel stuff) the lengths lunatic morons among the masses will go, but we also saw what happened in reaction to it.

The Constitution will not die, the US will not become some fascist nation, and everything will be just fine. You can think it's burying head in the sand talk, but it's not. Bet against the US at your own risk.
 
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