MindzEye
Wayward Ditch Pig
Best dressed man in the clown car, sure. He was an authoritarian monster, let's not sugar coat things.
"good guys"
lol, settle down. The good guy was overthrown in '53. It's been all bad since then.
OT: American Politics
- Thread starter MindzEye
- Start date
Best dressed man in the clown car, sure. He was an authoritarian monster, let's not sugar coat things.
"good guys"
lol, settle down. The good guy was overthrown in '53. It's been all bad since then.
lecoqsportif
Well-known member
Iran’s fixation on the US is recent… historically their boogeyman was the UK.
LeafOfFaith
Well-known member
The people who actually lived there during those times, and didn't just read about Iran on Wikipedia during Leaf game intermissions, believe he was a great man, not a monster.
Judge him by his opposition, which has destroyed the place over the past 50 years, and set it back 100 years. To lump together the Shah and the Ayatollah in an "all bad" collective assessment is hilarious.
WeHaveMoreCupsThanYou
I will get banned again soon, worry not.
JFC you're dumb.
He was deposed for reasons. The fact that the guy who replaced him was just as bad doesn't change the fact that the Shah was a huge piece of shit who probably murdered more Iranians than the Ayatollah ever did. He was just another fascist US puppet like Marcos in the Philippines, Noriega in Panama, or Batista in Cuba. Despots running military juntas that oppressed their own people in the furtherence of profit for US corporations.
The reason why the Ayatollah is so reviled in the US is because the US didn't own him. They couldn't care less how many Iranians he killed. They only ever cared about the oil.
thehabhater
Some call me Tim
Check out the 1976 Electoral college map. Carter didn’t even get to 300. And yet he won Texas, New York and Florida
WeHaveMoreCupsThanYou
I will get banned again soon, worry not.
And that was against Gerry Ford, who wasn't elected Vice President or President, and who pardoned Nixon. In his 2 years in office he was shot at twice.
thehabhater
Some call me Tim
Ford won California. Which today seems really odd. Mind you, I am old enough to remember California being center Right.
And if still don’t think that Ford wasn’t corrupt, he was on the Warren commission. That investigation that thinks that an entry wound is bigger than an exit wound
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WeHaveMoreCupsThanYou
I will get banned again soon, worry not.
I also think there was an agreement in place that he would pardon Nixon before Nixon resigned.
And the Warren Commission wasn't a fact-finding exercise. It was designed to reach a predetermined conclusion
LeafOfFaith
Well-known member
Just as bad. Haha.
A religious zealot fanatic who murdered at will, sent women's rights back to the stone age, caused literally every Jew to flee and nationalized the property of any that couldn't, ushered in a whole new level of censorship and intolerance of science and arts, a terrorist, a declared opponent of the west, and the father of the current psychotic world-hating and openly terrorism-funding regime.
thehabhater
Some call me Tim
It was helped by the sudden deaths of several eyewitnesses in the hours after the assassination
thehabhater
Some call me Tim
Both were bad. One was corrupt and supported by the US, and the other was corrupt and not supported by the US.
To suggest that Carter had any major role in the current situation is laughable
MindzEye
Wayward Ditch Pig
"fuck what the historical record says, with the human rights abuses, being part of overthrowing a democracy, arresting 1000's of political prisoners, the torture, the all powerful secret police snatching people off of the streets for speaking out against his rule, etc...he was a good guy!"
This is one of the clowniest of clown shoe takes I've ever seen.
I do.
Violent dictators bad. Democracy good. This isn't a challenging concept.
LeafOfFaith
Well-known member
Sure, but there's a whole history there, and the Shah wasn't even a wholehearted participant in it.
The point I'm taking issue with here is your view that the Shah was a "monster" that is samesies in your book with the fucking Ayatollah.
People who actually lived there for generations, and fled when the Ayatollah took power, definitely don't agree with your assessment.
MindzEye
Wayward Ditch Pig
I mean, you're just making shit up now.
Except, they were both monsters. the Shah overthrew a democratic government, threw 1000's of his political enemies in jail to torture and kill many of them, and used his secret police to extrajudicially make people disappear for speaking out against his government.
Fuck the ayatollah all day and all, but at least he overthrew a repressive dictatorship.
Yeah, both monsters.
There is usually a ruling class in any authoritarian shitshow that has it pretty good under the douchebag in charge. Saddam wasn't a bad guy if you were a Ba'athist, Hitler not so bad if you were a nazi, etc, etc.
LeafOfFaith
Well-known member
This is attempted comedy? Yeah, there is a massive contingency in the country (i.e., the ruling class) that are sick and twisted psychos who fervently pump strict islamic law to the point of being able to maim, jail, or kill women who don't take instruction well (serious stuff like not covering their hair in public), and chanting death to America and Israel whenever there's any opportunity to do so (like a little ole October 7 festivity), and you cite their grieving for the posterboy of those ideals as proof of something other than the Ayatollah being human trash that stands for literally everything we abhor?Case in point...a lot of Iranians were kind of fucking sad when Khomeini died
MindzEye
Wayward Ditch Pig
Is reading not required to pass the bar exam in California?
You keep defending the fucking Shah by saying that people who ackshually lived there thought he was a good guy...so he must be. Well every motherfucker in that picture also lives in the same motherfucking place and thought Khomeini was a pretty good guy.
Both were monsters.
WeHaveMoreCupsThanYou
I will get banned again soon, worry not.
The people who fled were the lackeys and courtiers of the Shah. The rich assholes who profited from his corruption. Of course they long for the "good old days" of pre-revolution Iran because they had it good.
It's no different than all the Cubans who fled to Miami after Castro came to power. They were all lackeys for Batista who benefitted from his corruption. When Castro came to power those people's lives were worth even less than Batista's.
Was Castro bad? Well if you were in the mafia and owned a casino in Havana prior to 1959 or you were an exec for the United Fruit Company, sure. But most Cubans liked Fidel a whole lot better than they did Batista.
The US has made boogeymen out of the people who kicked the US and or their corporations out of their countries. That in and of itself doesn't make them bad. The US has overthrown democracies and propped up fascist dictatorships all over the world. So who are the real criminals here? The Ayatollah? Castro? Ho Chi Minh? Or is it the US of A?
We all agree that North Korea is awful and Kim Jung Un is bad. But look at the rogue's gallery of corrupt shitbags who have run South Korea since the war there ended in 1953. Every last one of them a reprehensible criminal propped up by the US.
Whatever Iran has become since 1979 is the fault of the United States and the CIA and the Original Sin was deposing a democratically elected government in 1953 and replacing it with the puppet Shah. Everything that happened after that is on the US, including Khomeni and the radical Islamists who run the country now.
Every damn time since 1945 when the US has an opportunity to be the good guy somewhere in the world they instead decide to support fascists. And now the chickens have come home to roost and the fascists are in the White House, both houses of Congress, and on the bench of the Supreme Court. They did it to themselves by not practicing what they preached.
So next time, instead of some poor Iranian peasant being swept up off the street to be beaten and tortured by CIA-trained thugs in the basement of a Tehran jail, it'll be Americans being taken to the local Sheriff's office to be beaten and tortured by American CIA-trained thugs.