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OT: Coronavirus Resources - and other things to not worry about

Before vaccines were even administered to the public there were warning signs and cautions from every single expert on twitter. Just one example here after a 2 second search:

 
hockeylover said:
You know that guy’s location is marked Truckistan 🇨🇦 and has a blog about how Alberta’s hospitals are actually being overwhelmed by vaccine injury patients though, right?
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I'm not saying he's right. I'm on #TeamJosh!

I'm just saying: pretend you are skeptical about vaccines, believe Fauci lied, they're hiding the numbers about myocarditis, you've been reading this stuff for months, etc. Now read that thread. He starts off with Josh talking about consensus and then basing his thread on 1 cardiologist. You could certainly say, WTF, that makes no sense. You know who else is a cardiologist? Dr. Peter McCullogh!

The dude spends a lot of time referring to studies and data. I know it's bullshit because I've seen the data presented by actual virologists. You are more likely to get myocarditis from covid than the vaccine, but there is some question about whether that's true for certain segments of the population like males age 15-25, etc.

Unfortunately, it is easy to get sucked into the rabbit hole where you're pretty much only reading stuff posted by members of your "team". We are on the right team, there's no question about it. The problem is that they can say the exact same thing.
 
hockeylover said:
I’m a little confused, I honestly though it was common knowledge the whole time that you can still get it and transmit it but that it made it less likely (pre Omicron).
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The info has changed quite a few times. I do think the general idea was that you could get it, but it would be asymptomatic or very minor in most cases. As for transmission, I am pretty sure that there a number of people on our team saying vaccinated people would not transmit the disease. That why we needed vaccine passports to go to restaurants and sporting events where theoretically no one should have it or transmit it.
 
leafman101 said:


Its not just Joe Rogan or the right that peddles misinformation. The media as a whole is a bunch of liars. Thats why everyone needs a Dr. Preston.
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I mean Rachel Maddow is generally a good source of information. She wasn't saying that because she's a "liar", she's saying it because that's what her research team came up with for that evening's episode. A lot of people were saying it back then.

There used to be way more interest in fact-checking information thoroughly before broadcasting it, these days it's much more important to be first to post it on Twitter.
 
Couple things here. While most experts predicted that this could happen, you have to remember that science isn't static. You're dealing with a virus that randomly mutates and you're dealing with brand new vaccines where we truly had no idea how quickly antibodies would wane (and whether antibodies waning would matter all that much).

Experts were far more cautious in their approach and didn't really commit to anything but warned about the nature of coronaviruses (and rapid waning of protection) and mutations (especially after Alpha came to the scene). But people wanted answers and they do not like uncertainty. So the government and media were a lot less cautious in their assertions and now they are paying for it.
 
Preston said:
Couple things here. While most experts predicted that this could happen, you have to remember that science isn't static. You're dealing with a virus that randomly mutates and you're dealing with brand new vaccines where we truly had no idea how quickly antibodies would wane (and whether antibodies waning would matter all that much).

Experts were far more cautious in their approach and didn't really commit to anything but warned about the nature of coronaviruses (and rapid waning of protection) and mutations (especially after Alpha came to the scene). But people wanted answers and they do not like uncertainty. So the government and media were a lot less cautious in their assertions and now they are paying for it.
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Absolutely, this is a key point. We just didn't know FOR SURE. We still don't really, on many points. It's a new disease. Scientists need to be nimble because new data changes the equation every single day.

But in the meantime, there are millions of tweets daily and news network have to fill 24 hours of airtime.
 
axlsalinger said:
I'm not saying he's right. I'm on #TeamJosh!

I'm just saying: pretend you are skeptical about vaccines, believe Fauci lied, they're hiding the numbers about myocarditis, you've been reading this stuff for months, etc. Now read that thread. He starts off with Josh talking about consensus and then basing his thread on 1 cardiologist. You could certainly say, WTF, that makes no sense. You know who else is a cardiologist? Dr. Peter McCullogh!

The dude spends a lot of time referring to studies and data. I know it's bullshit because I've seen the data presented by actual virologists. You are more likely to get myocarditis from covid than the vaccine, but there is some question about whether that's true for certain segments of the population like males age 15-25, etc.

Unfortunately, it is easy to get sucked into the rabbit hole where you're pretty much only reading stuff posted by members of your "team". We are on the right team, there's no question about it. The problem is that they can say the exact same thing.
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I just don’t think we have to listen to every opposing argument equally and “give time to both sides” etc. I make a huge effort to check the background of sources and think critically about where scientific/medical information is coming from, their chosen method of delivering that information and whether that individual might have any financial motivation for providing a particular viewpoint. I don’t get it right all the time but I really think this step is overlooked a ton when people are processing information on the internet these days.

I don’t think a 12 tweet thread from a guy also tweeting blatant information IS actually worth reading, tbh. I’m sure you’ll say that’s close-minded but I think it’s a necessary weeding out process in a world with information overload.
 
axlsalinger said:
Absolutely, this is a key point. We just didn't know FOR SURE. We still don't really, on many points. It's a new disease. Scientists need to be nimble because new data changes the equation every single day.

But in the meantime, there are millions of tweets daily and news network have to fill 24 hours of airtime.
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Yeah, so now you're getting a lot of "but they told me that once I get the vaccine everything would be normal." Unfortunately that's not quite how science works and the virus doesn't really care about whether you were misled or not. The messaging should have been better but there was a huge push to get as many people vaccinated as possible, especially in the US so in some ways I understand it (even if I will never agree with hopium messaging).

The unfortunate thing is that the truth is powerful enough in itself. They didn't need to mislead the public. In the end vaccines have never ended a pandemic or eradicated a disease but they have clearly softened the blow substantially.
 
hockeylover said:
I just don’t think we have to listen to every opposing argument equally and “give time to both sides” etc. I make a huge effort to check the background of sources and think critically about where scientific/medical information is coming from, their chosen method of delivering that information and whether that individual might have any financial motivation for providing a particular viewpoint. I don’t get it right all the time but I really think this step is overlooked a ton when people are processing information on the internet these days.

I don’t think a 12 tweet thread from a guy also tweeting blatant information IS actually worth reading, tbh. I’m sure you’ll say that’s close-minded but I think it’s a necessary weeding out process in a world with information overload.
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Absolutely, one of the biggest problems in the world right now is that so many people can't tell the difference between real and fake news on social media. Being able to tell who the legit sources of info are is a skill.

I'm just saying that to someone on the other "team", that thread I posted sounds at least somewhat plausible. So does Josh's thread, as we know. It's a huge problem.

Also, to be clear I wasn't saying we should read it. I was just saying, check out this thread, it's funny because it sounds reasonable even though he's making the exact opposite argument!
 
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hockeylover said:
I just don’t think we have to listen to every opposing argument equally and “give time to both sides” etc. I make a huge effort to check the background of sources and think critically about where scientific/medical information is coming from, their chosen method of delivering that information and whether that individual might have any financial motivation for providing a particular viewpoint. I don’t get it right all the time but I really think this step is overlooked a ton when people are processing information on the internet these days.

I don’t think a 12 tweet thread from a guy also tweeting blatant information IS actually worth reading, tbh. I’m sure you’ll say that’s close-minded but I think it’s a necessary weeding out process in a world with information overload.
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Social media is the worst. Growing up we were taught don't trust anything you read on the internet, scrutinize your sources, get multiple sources to defend any argument, and research and attack the weaknesses in your argument to see if it holds up.

Now its whatever tweet that shows up in your echochamber is the catchiest and on brand goes viral. I mean lets be honest, no one is even reading those entire threads.
 
vaccine shedding vs vaccine giving complete immunity
if only there was something between those two options
 
leafman101 said:
Social media is the worst. Growing up we were taught don't trust anything you read on the internet, scrutinize your sources, get multiple sources to defend any argument, and research and attack the weaknesses in your argument to see if it holds up.

Now its whatever tweet that shows up in your echochamber is the catchiest and on brand goes viral. I mean lets be honest, no one is even reading those entire threads.
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i didnt even read your entire post
 
And btw, pre alpha there was a decent argument that the vaccines would be fine. Transmissibility wasn't anything crazy at the time and immune escape was nonexistent. When Alpha came that's when the red flags were there that shit... This thing can mutate dramatically and increase its transmissibility and likely eventually immune evasion in a hurry. And then delta got more transmissive with more immune escape and that's when it became clear that yeah, these vaccines alone aren't solving this.

But before that there was a good case that vaccines could have easily made this very manageable, with perhaps annual boosting. We've never lived through a novel coronavirus before so it was sort of a guessing game of what to expect.
 
Preston said:
Now fucking people like JFresh are looked at as fucking hockey experts. Ridiculous.
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Yeah, throw in the fact that there are Russian agents using social media to intentionally flame the "civil war", with garbage like "Michael Bunting isn't really a hockey god, I have to adjust my model", and its just a cesspool.
 
axlsalinger said:
Really, that's what you got out of it? Man you guys are so sensitive. A lot of this (imo!) comes down to the fact that people on #BothSides often decide that everyone who disagrees with them is either an "idiot" or a "grifter", and not worth listening to at any time for any reason. I think that's really shortsighted. Now we all do it with covid, because the other "side" has a lot of antivaxxers spouting nonsense - easy call. But they aren't always wrong, and we aren't always right. Especially with a new disease like this one.
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it seems like Joe and his backers instead of accepting that he has been 'inadvertently' peddling misinformation is minimizing the scope and extent of it. yes, that is what I took from the video. you took something different which is fine and I am not going to suggest that you ought to think differently.
axlsalinger said:
If you were famous and tweeted 6 months ago that vaccines don't stop you from getting covid and don't prevent you from transmitting it to others, you WOULD HAVE gotten swarmed and attacked by thousands of people, labelled an "antivaxxer", "idiot", "grifter", and every name under the sun.
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this is a false equivalency on many levels and part of what/why I found the video objectionable.

in the event I am wrong can you provide an example of someone who, in hindsight, was correct about masking, vaccination, etc. but was 'cancelled' for holding that opinion at the time?
axlsalinger said:
Here's the thing, though. They would have been right. Rogan should have used the word "attacked" rather than "banned". (and again, some people were)
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yeah I fully support people being 'attacked' on the basis of the opinions they hold. no issues here. that includes all of us on these here message boards.

if there is evidence of folks being 'banned' for holding opinions that were contrary to the mainstream back in the early pandemic days, I want to see it. but I haven't yet and so find this claim dubious.
axlsalinger said:
He records a podcast 4-5 times every week (or used to), and we are talking about TWO episodes. And as he said, McCullogh and Malone have worked for years in the field of medical science and have credentials. It's not like he had Joe the Plumber on to rant about vaccines. Now I know virtually nothing about McCullogh. Malone seems like he could be grifting, I don't really know what he's up to. I have not listened to either episode. Some people do like to play the contrarian. Some people do legitimately believe the mainstream consensus is wrong.

Remember what they say about the wisdom of crowds - they are very often wrong. (cough, #Brexit, cough)
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again, I think this is an overly reductionist analysis. I think the content in the two particular episodes is the most objectionable, but the whole ivermectin debacle is its own thing and my understanding is extended well beyond just two particular podcasts. and its not like those two episodes stand out as being unique and the only ones dabbling in the realm of covid bullshit.

he had an opportunity to do a full mea culpa and set the record straight. instead he recorded a 9 minute video that starts off with a bullshit false equivalency, and then proceeds to explain/justify where he was coming from while reaffirming he only has good intentions throughout, acknowledging a smidgen of wrongdoing (without addressing the harms it causes or why folks are so up in arms about it), and makes promises to 'do better'.

but, he does manage to appear to be a 'good guy' and pretty down to earth and one of the boys, which I gather is his shtick, so mission accomplished?
 
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