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Volcanologist
Well-known member
Galadriel's character is absurd. the irony is she was by far more powerful in the book than this sword-swinging ice-climbing chick who can wear full plate armour(lol). Very telling that they needed to make her "strong" in this particular way.
zeke
Well-known member
wait what? Galadriel was a warrior in the books too iirc. I'm pretty sure all the pre-LOTR tales had her leading and fighting battles.
as far as her magical powers, i'm guessing we're just seeing the beginning of her (and gandalf's) development into that kind of power. this is only the First Age I think.
Volcanologist
Well-known member
you do not recall correctly.
Galadriel
"This is Nenya, the Ring of Adamant, and I am its keeper." —Galadriel to Frodo Baggins Galadriel was the "Lady" of the woods of Lothlórien, which she ruled with Celeborn, her husband. One of the greatest Elves in Middle-earth, she surpassed nearly all others in beauty, knowledge, and power. She...
lotr.fandom.com
and of course she doesn't have a ROP yet in the first two episodes. obviously. they haven't been crafted yet.
Volcanologist
Well-known member
MindzEye
Wayward Ditch Pig
Yep, easily my biggest Tolkien nerd gripe is how bad they've gutted Galadriel and turned her into angry Aragorn.
*nerd gripes alert, turn back now*
- She's roughly 2000 years old at the time of this story, and was considered one of the wisest of the Noldor before Feanor dies 1200 years before ffs (this is an assumption I'll use for now, that this is all happening just before Annatar/Sauron shows up). We just see an angry chick on a vendetta against a baddie that casuals recognize the name of.
- The brother she's angry about dying didn't actually die in that battle they reference in those opening scenes (Finrod dies a much more heroic and overall important death, 10 years after Dagor Bragollach.....and his death was almost 1400 years prior to the events we're seeing now...she did however have 2 other brothers die in that battle, but fuck them, right?). They try to make it seem like it's been a few hundred years since Sauron went missing, when it's been closer to 1200
- You have to beat and stretch the lore within an inch of it's life to extrapolate her ever even picking up a sword from the words written about her. They somehow managed to nerf her in the process, as you mentioned, to make her look "strong".
- They've also managed to completely ignore the existence of her husband (because of course), who she married about ~1200 years prior to these events and 900 since she had her child (Elrond's future wife...)
- Gil-Galad leaves her out of his councils, talking with Elrond like she's simple....when she was the one who influenced his naming as high king, and is generally considered the wisest of all living elves at this point in time.
Yeah, they basically take all the greatness out of the book character to turn her into a sword swinging hero who is angry because all of the men won't listen to her. I kind of fucking hate that they've taken a very, very strong female character and weakened her to turn her into a modern social axe grinding tool.
*nerd gripes alert, turn back now*
- She's roughly 2000 years old at the time of this story, and was considered one of the wisest of the Noldor before Feanor dies 1200 years before ffs (this is an assumption I'll use for now, that this is all happening just before Annatar/Sauron shows up). We just see an angry chick on a vendetta against a baddie that casuals recognize the name of.
- The brother she's angry about dying didn't actually die in that battle they reference in those opening scenes (Finrod dies a much more heroic and overall important death, 10 years after Dagor Bragollach.....and his death was almost 1400 years prior to the events we're seeing now...she did however have 2 other brothers die in that battle, but fuck them, right?). They try to make it seem like it's been a few hundred years since Sauron went missing, when it's been closer to 1200
- You have to beat and stretch the lore within an inch of it's life to extrapolate her ever even picking up a sword from the words written about her. They somehow managed to nerf her in the process, as you mentioned, to make her look "strong".
- They've also managed to completely ignore the existence of her husband (because of course), who she married about ~1200 years prior to these events and 900 since she had her child (Elrond's future wife...)
- Gil-Galad leaves her out of his councils, talking with Elrond like she's simple....when she was the one who influenced his naming as high king, and is generally considered the wisest of all living elves at this point in time.
Yeah, they basically take all the greatness out of the book character to turn her into a sword swinging hero who is angry because all of the men won't listen to her. I kind of fucking hate that they've taken a very, very strong female character and weakened her to turn her into a modern social axe grinding tool.
MindzEye
Wayward Ditch Pig
Nah
Nah, 2nd age, about 1200 years in. She was born a few hundred years before the 1st age and was accounted as wise and powerful even prior to the 1st age.
She was already more or less the exact same character we see in LOTR by this time. Already married to Celeborn, already been in Lorien for a few hundred years, etc, etc, etc.
Volcanologist
Well-known member
It was hilarious, when we were watching the Valinor part my bro said to me "I bet she dives off and swims back to Middle earth"
Anyway, I'm still gonna watch it of course. I love the source material too much not to.
Anyway, I'm still gonna watch it of course. I love the source material too much not to.
MindzEye
Wayward Ditch Pig
That was another thing that some people are trying to claim is in the source material because she was offered to return to the west at the end of the 1st age and pissed on it out of what is generally considered to be her one flaw earlier in her life (which she recognizes in her monologue about what would happen if she took the ring from Frodo in LOTR), pride.
But she flat out never gets on the boat, and it's the gods themselves that she declines the pardon of.
zeke
Well-known member
you do not recall correctly.
Galadriel
"This is Nenya, the Ring of Adamant, and I am its keeper." —Galadriel to Frodo Baggins Galadriel was the "Lady" of the woods of Lothlórien, which she ruled with Celeborn, her husband. One of the greatest Elves in Middle-earth, she surpassed nearly all others in beauty, knowledge, and power. She...
and of course she doesn't have a ROP yet in the first two episodes. obviously. they haven't been crafted yet.
er, from your link:
"Galadriel was originally named Artanis ("noble woman") which was her Father-name and Nerwen ("man-maiden"), which was her Mother-name (referring to her height and strength)"
"She was also the tallest of elf-women, standing at around 6 feet 4 inches, or 193 centimeters."
"and she grew to be tall beyond the measure even of the women of the Noldor; she was strong of body, mind, and will "
"in The Silmarillion, Galadriel was an eager participant and leader in the rebellion of the Ñoldor and their flight from Valinor due to her desire to one day rule over lands in Middle-earth herself."
zeke
Well-known member
ok so you made me nerd dive.
Tolkien himself: "Galadriel, like all the other names of elvish persons in The Lord of the Rings, is an invention of my own. It is in Sindarin form (see Appendices E and F) and means 'Maiden crowned with gleaming hair'. It is a secondary name given to her in her youth in the far past because she had long hair which glistened like gold but was also shot with silver. She was then of Amazon disposition and bound up her hair as a crown when taking part in athletic feats."
Unfinished Tales: ""So it came to pass that when the light of Valinor failed, for ever as the Noldor thought, she joined the rebellion against the Valar who commanded them to stay; and once she had set foot upon that road of exile she would not relent, but rejected the last message of the Valar, and came under the Doom of Mandos. Even after the merciless assault upon the Teleri and the rape of their ships, though she fought fiercely against Fëanor in defence of her mother's kin, she did not turn back. Her pride was unwilling to return, a defeated suppliant for pardon; but now she burned with desire to follow Fëanor with her anger to whatever lands he might come, and to thwart him in all ways that she could.""
Weird that the nerds would be upset that literally the most powerful being on middle-earth could actually handle herself physically without magic, too.
Tolkien himself: "Galadriel, like all the other names of elvish persons in The Lord of the Rings, is an invention of my own. It is in Sindarin form (see Appendices E and F) and means 'Maiden crowned with gleaming hair'. It is a secondary name given to her in her youth in the far past because she had long hair which glistened like gold but was also shot with silver. She was then of Amazon disposition and bound up her hair as a crown when taking part in athletic feats."
Unfinished Tales: ""So it came to pass that when the light of Valinor failed, for ever as the Noldor thought, she joined the rebellion against the Valar who commanded them to stay; and once she had set foot upon that road of exile she would not relent, but rejected the last message of the Valar, and came under the Doom of Mandos. Even after the merciless assault upon the Teleri and the rape of their ships, though she fought fiercely against Fëanor in defence of her mother's kin, she did not turn back. Her pride was unwilling to return, a defeated suppliant for pardon; but now she burned with desire to follow Fëanor with her anger to whatever lands he might come, and to thwart him in all ways that she could.""
Weird that the nerds would be upset that literally the most powerful being on middle-earth could actually handle herself physically without magic, too.
zeke
Well-known member
sure timelines might be jumbled and many lesser characters disappeared (like with every single show and movie based on a book), though of course all those scraps of Tolkein's writings don't actually coalesce into a coherent timeline, let alone a good storyline, anyways.
but I don't see how anyone reads LOTR and comes off with the impression that Galadriel isn't an immensely powerful (and scary) character both physically and magically, and that as a young woman her physical powers would be more prevalent than her magical ones.
Volcanologist
Well-known member
but did you actually read it though? she might be able to play point guard but her power comes from her magical ability.
eg
also, your typical white-knighting around here is coming to the fore once again. Nauseating. Nobody said she was weak, in fact if you read my post I said the exact opposite.
why do critiques of these laughable feminist tropes bother you so much?
MindzEye
Wayward Ditch Pig
There has been a ton of excellent work put in over the years by Tolkien scholars (including his son Christopher) that has turned out a very detailed, very comprehensive timeline. Claiming that they don't coalesce into a coherent timeline is flat out incorrect.
As mentioned, a significant amount of Galadriel's power is in her ownership of own of the elven rings (which she does not have at this point in the story for obvious reasons) and the extent of her power relative is discussed in Tolkien's writings. Turning her into Xena: Warrior Elf Princess is a massive departure from the established character. Just the example of Gil-Galad and Elrond basically talking over her head about how she doesn't have the foresight to see how her quest can possibly bring about the evil she is looking for spits in the face of what the character is in the books. Elrond is considered to have incredible levels of foresight among the elves, and Galadriel has always been smarter and wiser than Elrond.
MindzEye
Wayward Ditch Pig
Yeah, that's the lore that I referred to earlier that has to be twisted and beaten within an inch of it's life. Which I thank you for again beating and twisting within an inch of it's life to make your point.
MindzEye
Wayward Ditch Pig
I'm mad that they nerfed her and made her a sword swinging idiot, twit. And to do this, removed about 1500 years of established Tolkien history.