• Moderators, please send me a PM if you are unable to access mod permissions. Thanks, Habsy.

OT: Movies/TV Shows

zeke said:
Absndon the timelines - this is young pre-wizard galadriel they're showing. Her character arc is probably one of the shows backbones I'd guess.
Click to expand...

Nah, I consider it a massive red flag when they have to retcon massive parts of who and what a character is to create a narrative. Galadriel wasn't "young" at this point in time, she was 1000's of years old (older still if you accept some of Tolkien's notes about the earliest years spent in Aman being equal to 144 human years each). In a bunch of the things you quoted, you'll notice the comparisons to Feanor but Tolkien is quick to point out that she's wiser (Feanor was a hothead by elven standards but still entirely brilliant) and that comparison is made a few 1000 years before the events of this show. All of that shit you quoted yesterday, her fighting in the kinslaying, crossing the frozen north, etc, etc, etc...a few 1000 years before the events of this show. A few thousand years packed with lore and storytelling.

At this point on the timeline, Galadriel was the oldest and wisest of the elves in ME (the King is the grandson of one of her dead brothers ffs) . She was one of the minority that had lived in Aman during the days of the trees (literally the delineating point in Tolkien's writings between the Noldor & Sindar like Legolas is that the Noldor knew the light of the trees, it makes them significantly more powerful, wiser, etc. This carries for future Noldor generations that were born after the trees were killed). I get what they're doing (it's tough to start with a OP character and then develop an arc for them...she would start off the game awesome, and have plot armor to boot) but it's fucking lazy and simply doesn't respect the IP.

zeke said:
And I gotta say I missed all this online furor over this and am actually shocked - there's plenty of iffy parts in this show so far but I never imagined galadriel being able to fight with a sword would be one of them .
Click to expand...

You're honestly missing the point and by a lot. It's not that Galadriel can swing a sword (though I'll ignore the difference between being able to swing a sword, and make elven special ops soldiers look wholly inadequate). It's that she's so far fucking beyond who this character is at this point that it's insulting to the book character. It's that to show how "badass" she is we had to see what are defacto Elven special ops soldiers look hilariously inept (They should all be capable of Legolas level feats or better, with Legolas being from one of the strongest Sindar lines and not Noldor) against a troll (which every single Noldor Soldier should be able to body 1v1). But then we have to believe that she's dumb and lacks foresight (the opposite being literally what she's best known for and what the lore shows her spending her time on developing) and is treated like at most a celebrated soldier by her lessers, Gil Galad and Elrond.

You know that scene in the Matrix where Neo questions Morpheus about his being able to dodge bullets and Morpheus tells him that when he's ready he won't need to. This is similarish. It's not that Galadriel can't swing a sword, it's that she didn't need to. She was so far beyond having to swing a sword at this point in the timeline it's incredible. This is an epic nerfing and dumbing down of what was the greatest elf in ME at this point.
 
She hasn't shown one bit of magic so far and as you've already acknowledged they've moved timelines by like 1000 years or so. They're obviously showing a young Galadriel yet to come into her full powers.
 
CH1 said:
Click to expand...


On one hand I agree, I hardly sit around reading Tolkien lore on a daily basis. But when you have stories that you actually care about, it's not too much to ask a mega corporation to respect those when they're adapting those to other formats. They're using the fandom to sell this show, at least respect it.
 
zeke said:
She hasn't shown one bit of magic so far and as you've already acknowledged they've moved timelines by like 1000 years or so. They're obviously showing a young Galadriel yet to come into her full powers.
Click to expand...

and you can't grasp why fans would have an issue with this beyond "gurlz can't swing swords!!!"

Fuck off
 
I am fine with the nerd haggles over timelines and missing characters like happens with every book adaptation ever.

No issues. Plenty to criticize.

Myself I've complained about the early pacing and I'm iffy on some of the acting. I also don't really buy mom and son killing that orc and i don't get why only one orc came up. I also don't love Durin being so clownish off the top.

I just am shocked that people are upset that Galadriel can fight without magic, especially when the film universe has made it so clear that even magic is a very physical endeavour. You don't face down Sauron one on one without being a badass fighter on every level.
 
MindzEye said:
On one hand I agree, I hardly sit around reading Tolkien lore on a daily basis. But when you have stories that you actually care about, it's not too much to ask a mega corporation to respect those when they're adapting those to other formats. They're using the fandom to sell this show, at least respect it.
Click to expand...

I agree...mostly jabbing at sweet zeke who won't take you're "no thanks" for an answer
 
zeke said:
I just am shocked that people are upset that Galadriel can fight without magic
Click to expand...

I can't speak for everyone, but from the online chattering I've seen about this it boils down to a few things:

The way they introduced her fighting ability was to take a fat shit on elven soldiers, which as we've seen in other LOTR properties are wall to wall incredible. Galadriel is an incredibly highly honoured and regarded Elf, if we're to accept that she's gone on this vendetta mission, she would have taken the absolute best of the best from her house, not the chumps she saved from themselves. So these would have been better versions of what we saw in the Two Towers (those were Sindar elves from Lorien). They also would have been from her house, and the thought of abandoning her would have been mental for them. This is where it's hard for someone not familiar with the source material to properly judge the anger. It's not just that she's being set up as a fighter (which as mentioned, requires significant retconning). It's that our introduction to her required us to accept that 1) She's a vendetta (that doesn't make sense...) driven twit who doesn't at all resemble the character that tutored under a literal angel considered the wisest of the Maia (and was on first name basis with Olorin/Gandalf, also a maia noted for wisdom in Aman) for 100's of years 2) to show us she's a badass, we first see her saving inept elven soldiers who should be god tier fighters unto themselves. So the show isn't just asking us to believe that she can swing a sword, it's to accept that she's now the best of all the elf warriors and was a full plate wearing soldier for 100's-1000's of years. It's just a different character.

There's a lot of problems with the character man, there just is.

- She shows no signs of her legendary wisdom, literally none because badasses don't need common sense, planning, etc.
- Her brother wasn't killed by Sauron and wasn't dead (resurrected in the west) by the 2nd age and she would have known this. But vendetta because cheap and easy storyline for lazy writers
- Married for 1200 years at this point, a child for at least 900 (some arguments among Tolkien people regarding Celebrian's birth year). They (she and Celeborn) were attached at the hip for all of her 2nd age journies trying to track down the unknown Maia that she had perceived as out there.
- Would never have been talked past, treated like a subject like she was by Gil Galad and Elrond. She was a king maker ffs. The better of both of them. If Galadriel had told them "there's some shit out there", they would have immediately listened to her...we know this because that's exactly what happened in the lore. Galadriel perceived that a Maia of morgoth was still floating around ME and both GG and Elrond immediately took her seriously because she's fucking Galadriel.

I can't and won't speak for the culture warrior muppets who are hyper sensitive to anything they deem to be "woke" but there's a whole lot wrong with this character that just isn't Galadriel and it's not the sword swingy parts. It's that they've made her a sword swinging idiot.
 
MindzEye said:
I can't speak for everyone, but from the online chattering I've seen about this it boils down to a few things:

The way they introduced her fighting ability was to take a fat shit on elven soldiers, which as we've seen in other LOTR properties are wall to wall incredible. Galadriel is an incredibly highly honoured and regarded Elf, if we're to accept that she's gone on this vendetta mission, she would have taken the absolute best of the best from her house, not the chumps she saved from themselves. So these would have been better versions of what we saw in the Two Towers (those were Sindar elves from Lorien). They also would have been from her house, and the thought of abandoning her would have been mental for them. This is where it's hard for someone not familiar with the source material to properly judge the anger. It's not just that she's being set up as a fighter (which as mentioned, requires significant retconning). It's that our introduction to her required us to accept that 1) She's a vendetta (that doesn't make sense...) driven twit who doesn't at all resemble the character that tutored under a literal angel considered the wisest of the Maia (and was on first name basis with Olorin/Gandalf, also a maia noted for wisdom in Aman) for 100's of years 2) to show us she's a badass, we first see her saving inept elven soldiers who should be god tier fighters unto themselves. So the show isn't just asking us to believe that she can swing a sword, it's to accept that she's now the best of all the elf warriors and was a full plate wearing soldier for 100's-1000's of years. It's just a different character.

There's a lot of problems with the character man, there just is.

- She shows no signs of her legendary wisdom, literally none because badasses don't need common sense, planning, etc.
- Her brother wasn't killed by Sauron and wasn't dead (resurrected in the west) by the 2nd age and she would have known this. But vendetta because cheap and easy storyline for lazy writers
- Married for 1200 years at this point, a child for at least 900 (some arguments among Tolkien people regarding Celebrian's birth year). They (she and Celeborn) were attached at the hip for all of her 2nd age journies trying to track down the unknown Maia that she had perceived as out there.
- Would never have been talked past, treated like a subject like she was by Gil Galad and Elrond. She was a king maker ffs. The better of both of them. If Galadriel had told them "there's some shit out there", they would have immediately listened to her...we know this because that's exactly what happened in the lore. Galadriel perceived that a Maia of morgoth was still floating around ME and both GG and Elrond immediately took her seriously because she's fucking Galadriel.

I can't and won't speak for the culture warrior muppets who are hyper sensitive to anything they deem to be "woke" but there's a whole lot wrong with this character that just isn't Galadriel and it's not the sword swingy parts. It's that they've made her a sword swinging idiot.
Click to expand...

Sounds anti feminist.

I know nothing beyond the LOTR books / movies. But your version sounds better than the tv show.
 
worm said:
Sounds anti feminist.

I know nothing beyond the LOTR books / movies. But your version sounds better than the tv show.
Click to expand...

I'm getting wot flashbacks where a strong narrative was obviously there and just ignored by the writers because they might actually have to write good characters instead of plug and play tropes.
 
Haha, I just walked out of the office building and there were four women arguing about this exact bullshit about the female character’s height and shit. I heard 5 seconds of it and immediately knew.
 
So about Stranger Things S1 @zeke - I finished it last night.

I thought some of the logic started to give way in the end, not unexpected for a fantasy/sci fi type show. But mainly, some issues that maybe you have answers to where I didn't:

Missing Will - he probably gets nabbed by the monster and dragged into upside down world when he goes missing initially, but then over the course of a week, he doesn't get immediately devoured like that poor deer did, and he's successfully hidden himself away from the monster and avoided murder like the girl who got abducted after him?

The monster seemed to just show up at the lab and Will's house and the forest where the gate (one of them) was. They suddenly established that thing about blood drawing him out. But in the last episode, he suddenly opens a portal out of nowhere at the school where the kids are hiding out, just as they needed an assist with the military guys? They said something like, oh, because of the blood, but the monster suddenly has the ability to show up in rightside up world wherever he wants?

Will gets that gross worm thing attached to his mouth and insides, and they just pull that out and give him CPR and this frail little kid survives in his weakened state with no food after a week? And then they didn't do any MRIs or anything while he's at the hospital to see that he has leftover worm in his system??

I didn't really like that the monster was just some monster. Would've been cooler if it was some guy who got stuck in upside down world in previous experiments or iterations of that government project. But there's just this one solitary monster hanging out on his own over there, that Eleven somehow frees up to enter the real world? Also, I feel like we've seen that exact monster head, opening up in four pieces, in some other tv show. Driving me crazy that I can't remember where.

Overall, still enjoyable and looking forward to S2, but I had high hopes from the first 7 episodes that these particular writers weren't going to leave these types of loose ends and inconsistencies in the end when the dust settled. Maybe I missed some detail and there were explanations for some of the above, or maybe they revisit to answer some of it in later seasons (clearly the Will worm storyline will be a focus of S2 - assuming the monster manifests through him or something).
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top