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OT: NFL thread

Re: OT: NFL thread (Superbowl 50)

WeHaveMoreCupsThanYou said:
Kelly lost 1 big game per season for 4 seasons. None of them were against the Dolphins. When the money was on the table the Bills destroyed the Dolphins.
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he lost the biggest game of the season for four straight seasons. Doesn't that make Kelly not clutch?

I also figure on any list you will see, Marino will be listed higher than Kelly
 
TheCountofMonteCristo said:
I query as to why any team would take that albatross off the Eagles' hands.
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Because any that does would only owe him $7 million for this season, and then could release him after this season, owing him not a penny more, and Denver (and, arguably the NYJ) need a starting QB. Got it, old, privileged, white man?
 
Krustchev said:
Because any that does would only owe him $7 million for this season, and then could release him after this season, owing him not a penny more, and Denver (and, arguably the NYJ) need a starting QB. Got it, old, privileged, white man?
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Privileged Jew, shouldn't you be eating some kind of Passover seder? I still wouldn't take the contract off the Eagles. Let them stew in their own bile for a bit. As you stated, the key word is "starter" and I am not sure Bradford could be called one at this point in his career.
 
TheCountofMonteCristo said:
Privileged Jew, shouldn't you be eating some kind of Passover seder? I still wouldn't take the contract off the Eagles. Let them stew in their own bile for a bit. As you stated, the key word is "starter" and I am not sure Bradford could be called one at this point in his career.
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Sam Bradford should be worth $7 million for one year to a team like Denver. They don't have a starting QB, and they can contend for a SB even with Bradford.
 
Krustchev said:
The Brady case is why the identity of the next POTUS is so critical.
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Kraft is already working the phones to ensure the GOP doesn't do its job and have a confirmation hearing ;)

You do have a point re Bradford, he at least could manage the games and try not to lose them for the Broncos. He is a better option for them than Manziel
 
Re: OT: NFL thread (Superbowl 50)

TheCountofMonteCristo said:
he lost the biggest game of the season for four straight seasons. Doesn't that make Kelly not clutch?

I also figure on any list you will see, Marino will be listed higher than Kelly
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It's all how you look at it. Kelly lost 4 Superbowls. In order to do that you have to get your team to 4 Superbowls which means you're winning a ton of playoff games along the way; all of which are, by definition, "clutch" games. By contrast Marino lost only 1 Superbowl which means he was only able to string 2 playoff wins in a season once. The only way I would rank Marino and his one AFC title higher than Kelly and his 4 AFC titles is if Marino had topped that one conference championship with a Super Bowl victory. But he didn't.
 
worm said:
lol
Kelly is a bust when it matters most.
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But not as big a bust as Marino, who only got to one Super Bowl. he wasn't even good enough to get his team to the big game so he could underachieve in it. And scoff if you want to but going to 4 straight Super Bowls, win or lose, is an unbelievable accomplishment. To lose a big game by a missed field goal and come back again the next year and the year after that and the year after that is next to impossible. John Elway lost more Super Bowls than he won but even he didn't get to the big game 4 years in a row.

Look at the Seahawks. They lose the Super Bowl on a ridiculously stupid play call and it ruined them for the following season. They barely made the playoffs and only won a playoff game because the Vikings choked. It's hard enough for the team that wins the championship to get back to the Super Bowl the following year. For the losing team it's well nigh impossible. But somehow the Bills, led by Kelly, managed to overcome the physical and psychological obstacles and go back three more times. I think what they did is harder to achieve than fluking out a Super Bowl win one time like Trent Dilfer.
 
worm said:
The only winning that matters is championships.
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Yes, but you have to win in order to get into a position to play for a championship. We aren't arguing about whether Kelly's 4 SB losses are better than Eli's or Peyton's 2 SB wins. We're arguing that Kelly's 0-4 record in the big game is better than Marino's 0-1 record because Kelly earned his team more opportunities than Marino earned for his. Before you can win a Super Bowl you first have to win 2 or 3 playoff games. Marino didn't win many of those.

Besides, it's hardly the fault of the quarterback when the place kicker misses a field goal. If Kelly had done nothing in Super Bowls but throw INT's then you could say something about his responsibility.
 
WeHaveMoreCupsThanYou said:
But not as big a bust as Marino, who only got to one Super Bowl. he wasn't even good enough to get his team to the big game so he could underachieve in it. And scoff if you want to but going to 4 straight Super Bowls, win or lose, is an unbelievable accomplishment. To lose a big game by a missed field goal and come back again the next year and the year after that and the year after that is next to impossible. John Elway lost more Super Bowls than he won but even he didn't get to the big game 4 years in a row.

Look at the Seahawks. They lose the Super Bowl on a ridiculously stupid play call and it ruined them for the following season. They barely made the playoffs and only won a playoff game because the Vikings choked. It's hard enough for the team that wins the championship to get back to the Super Bowl the following year. For the losing team it's well nigh impossible. But somehow the Bills, led by Kelly, managed to overcome the physical and psychological obstacles and go back three more times. I think what they did is harder to achieve than fluking out a Super Bowl win one time like Trent Dilfer.
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In all fairness, could not the same be said about all other chokers you rag on like say Puongo? While he does choke when it counts, (and I had a nice FB battle on that very point-it was like I was interacting with ten Xpofans at once), he does get his team to the post season, has won a ton of regular season games etc.

One can argue that Kelly was a great QB, no ifs ands or buts about it, but he never won a championship in college or the pros. You have stated many times, all that matters are championships, so by your definition, Kelly was a loser.
 
WeHaveMoreCupsThanYou said:
Yes, but you have to win in order to get into a position to play for a championship. We aren't arguing about whether Kelly's 4 SB losses are better than Eli's or Peyton's 2 SB wins. We're arguing that Kelly's 0-4 record in the big game is better than Marino's 0-1 record because Kelly earned his team more opportunities than Marino earned for his. Before you can win a Super Bowl you first have to win 2 or 3 playoff games. Marino didn't win many of those.

Besides, it's hardly the fault of the quarterback when the place kicker misses a field goal. If Kelly had done nothing in Super Bowls but throw INT's then you could say something about his responsibility.
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In all fairness, his teams were not in the other three SBs they lost. Hell, his fumble INT in the 1992 SB turned that game around.
 
WeHaveMoreCupsThanYou said:
Yes, but you have to win in order to get into a position to play for a championship. We aren't arguing about whether Kelly's 4 SB losses are better than Eli's or Peyton's 2 SB wins. We're arguing that Kelly's 0-4 record in the big game is better than Marino's 0-1 record because Kelly earned his team more opportunities than Marino earned for his. Before you can win a Super Bowl you first have to win 2 or 3 playoff games. Marino didn't win many of those.

Besides, it's hardly the fault of the quarterback when the place kicker misses a field goal. If Kelly had done nothing in Super Bowls but throw INT's then you could say something about his responsibility.
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A lot of excuses.

Championship is bust.
 
Both have zero championships. Playoff games and regular season games do not mean much if you cant win the big one.

Ask Bobby Luo
 
Krustchev said:
Sam Bradford should be worth $7 million for one year to a team like Denver. They don't have a starting QB, and they can contend for a SB even with Bradford.
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The funny thing is that Denver have drawn the line at exactly 7 mil as the max they would pay a QB next season.

As a side note.....Bradford has made over 70 mil in his career, while being mostly injured. Not a bad gig....
 
worm said:
A lot of excuses.

Championship is bust.
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Not excuses. I'm comparing Kelly to Marino. Since neither of them won a Super Bowl they have to be compared on the basis of what and how much they did manage to win. Kelly did more. He got closer more often than Marino did.

Championships only matter when you're comparing a guy who has them with another who doesn't. So obviously Montana and Brady are going to win a comparison between themselves and either Kelly or Marino. But lots of really great QB's never won a championship. They can't win a comparison with a QB that has a ring but among other QB's who also never won it is possible to say that some were better than others. Of all the QB's who never won a championship Kelly is probably the best because he got to the precipice of greatness more often than the others.
 
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