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OT: Politics & News... Have at it.

I agree it's not too hard to add a "Les magazins" in front of Walmart, but I feel that the government should lay off what a company wants to do. If I want to set up my company in Quebec, personally I feel that the government has no rights to tell me what I can and can't put on my signs, or even how I want to conduct my own business, unless if what I'm doing is illegal, false advertising, or discriminatory.

Now, I see nothing wrong with the government promoting the French language. If you want to give breaks to companies that do business in french, or who hire more french workers, be my guest. But making it illegal to conduct business in english, or essentially making it illegal to have signs in English, to me that crosses the line.

Of course, the biggest problem is that we are essentially living in an English-dominated global economy. Even in Quebec, the government needs to do a better job of teaching people English. I know it's a French province, but in modern society if you can't conduct business in English you're essentially handicapping your career. If everyone in Quebec could work in both English and French, sure, you might have more people leave, but it would also encourage more companies to relocate to Quebec, and would help Quebec companies to do business with the outside world. If new companies would actually set up in Quebec, then they would send their kids through french immersion schools (which again, I don't mind forcing kids to learn french, but the government shouldn't be forcing kids to go to French-only schools), and you'd get more people learning French. As it stands now, if I had a business, there's no way in hell I'd set it up in Quebec with the way the current laws are, and really all that does is limit Quebec's abilities to truly compete on a global stage.

tl;dr; version: Bilingual good, French-only bad.
 
GrandWazoo said:
That's your rant? 30% is pretty significant, enough to justify this requirement.
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Yes but in Quebec there is no requirement for government workers to speak English even though there is a significant English-speaking population there because unlike NB, Quebec wants to be exclusive instead of inclusive. In everything they do the government makes it clear: if you aren't French you are not welcome, even if you were born here.

This is where the nationalists' arguments always fall flat: they don't want a French-speaking Quebec. They want a French Quebec, point final. They don't want Anglos and Allos to learn French; they just want them out. To this end, they subject everyone to death by 1000 cuts. That's what these new signage regulations amount to. Just one more petty injustice designed to further inconvenience people.
 
UWHabs said:
I agree it's not too hard to add a "Les magazins" in front of Walmart, but I feel that the government should lay off what a company wants to do. If I want to set up my company in Quebec, personally I feel that the government has no rights to tell me what I can and can't put on my signs, or even how I want to conduct my own business, unless if what I'm doing is illegal, false advertising, or discriminatory.

Now, I see nothing wrong with the government promoting the French language. If you want to give breaks to companies that do business in french, or who hire more french workers, be my guest. But making it illegal to conduct business in english, or essentially making it illegal to have signs in English, to me that crosses the line.

Of course, the biggest problem is that we are essentially living in an English-dominated global economy. Even in Quebec, the government needs to do a better job of teaching people English. I know it's a French province, but in modern society if you can't conduct business in English you're essentially handicapping your career. If everyone in Quebec could work in both English and French, sure, you might have more people leave, but it would also encourage more companies to relocate to Quebec, and would help Quebec companies to do business with the outside world. If new companies would actually set up in Quebec, then they would send their kids through french immersion schools (which again, I don't mind forcing kids to learn french, but the government shouldn't be forcing kids to go to French-only schools), and you'd get more people learning French. As it stands now, if I had a business, there's no way in hell I'd set it up in Quebec with the way the current laws are, and really all that does is limit Quebec's abilities to truly compete on a global stage.

tl;dr; version: Bilingual good, French-only bad.
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Bang-on. Unfortunately, what the xenophobes who are drafting these laws want isn't a bilingual Quebec or even a French-speaking Quebec. They want a French Quebec. That means no non-francophones speaking French, just no non-francophones period. When they chant "Le Quebec au Quebecois!" they aren't trying to be inclusive. They're telling "les autres" (i.e. anyone who isn't a white, pur laine francophone) to get the f*** out.

If it were simply a matter of speaking French there would be far less resistance. But while speaking French is mandatory to get a civil service job with the provincial government bilingual Anglos only account for something like 3% of all civil servants currently employed. To me, that says that what's important isn't what language you speak but what your last name is. If it's "Smith" it likely doesn't matter how well you can speak French. You ain't getting the job.
 
Guibs said:
That sentence right there just show how disconnected from reality you are.

First, the measure proposed are in now way punishing businesses. Tell me how adding "Les supermachés" in front of "Wallmart" hurts wallmart? Same goes for "les boutiques" Best Buy, etc. It doesn't hurt them in anyway.

Second, you are referring to a french speaking province. To me, it makes sense for foreign company to want to do business in a french environment, to make the proper adjustments to respect the local population and laws by complying. Trust me, those few companies that would feel offended (their lost) and move out, there are other company lining up to come over here and take the Quebecers's money.

Tell me if Wallmart were to move to China if they wouldn't adjust their practices and possible "market name" to ease in their integration in China? Of course they would. Why can't the be applied for Americain company when wanting to do business in Quebec?

The changes requested is very minor and I fail to see the issue. If you look at other company, some american company where even further and without being asked for it. Just look at Staples who completely changed his name to "bureau en gros" in Quebec. Did it hurt their business? Absolutely not. Imagine, the changes proposed here is miles away from what Staples did when coming over here.

What the law is asking is basic respect for the population here. I don't see an issue with that myself. If I was a business owner wanting to do business in a new province and I was asked to just add "les magasins" in fron of my company name, I'd have no issues at all.

Here at work, I work for a manufacturing company and they also added a french part to their market name. Did it hurt our business doing so? Absolutely not. Did it cost us a fortune to do it? Nope.

This is a none issue being blown out of proportion by anglophones scared of something I don't get. This is a FRENCH province. If you didn't want to deal with french, just don't come over here, others will be more than happy to do so.
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Child please.

Do not try to compare Quebec to China. China is a market of over 1 billion. Quebec's market is microscopic by comparison. When a US-based company finds itself in a market that's larger than the US naturally allowances will be made. They'd be foolish not to. But for the sake of a handful of stores in Quebec? Why would they bother? There are probably more Walmart stores in the State of New York alone than in all of Quebec. The entire population of Canada is roughly the same as California. Canada is a goldfish in the ocean. Quebec is a tadpole.

What the nationalists have to be honest about with themselves (and the rest of us) is this: is Quebec a French-speaking province or is it a French province? The distinction is important. If it's a French-speaking province, where people of all ethnic and linguistic backgrounds can receive service in English without being hassled, but signs are predominantly French and the speaking of French is a requirement for working in a government job then no one is going to have an issue. But if it's a French province where no accommodations will be made for people who speak other languages (particularly English, which is an official language of Canada) and preferential treatment is given to people of French descent over Anglos and Allos who may speak perfect French themselves? That won't fly.

New Brunswick is officially bilingual but Ontario isn't. Yet Franco-Ontarians are usually able to access services in their language without nearly as much BS as Anglo Quebeckers have to put up with. Perhaps it's because Francophones in Ontario aren't as reviled as Anglos in Quebec. English-speaking Ontarians don't blame everything bad that ever happened to them on "les autres". And there are plenty of Ontario provincial civil service jobs which favour bilingual people over unilingual Anglos. Additionally, you're seeing a lot of bilingual signage on Ontario highways that you didn't used to see outside of the Ottawa area. Now, even in Toronto you see it. There's more bilingualism going on outside than inside Quebec. And as Count points out, other provinces don't require English to be on commercial signs. Where I live in suburban Vancouver there's as much signage in Punjabi as there is in English. Many Punjabi, Hindi, Cantonese and Mandarin businesses have no English on their signs at all. Nobody cares.
 
This is a tempest in tea pot. The vast majority of large corporations know they need social license to operate in a particular jurisdiction and to comply to collective standards and expectations. I suspect they will comply and this issue will wither away.
 
UWHabs said:
I agree it's not too hard to add a "Les magazins" in front of Walmart, but I feel that the government should lay off what a company wants to do. If I want to set up my company in Quebec, personally I feel that the government has no rights to tell me what I can and can't put on my signs, or even how I want to conduct my own business, unless if what I'm doing is illegal, false advertising, or discriminatory.

Now, I see nothing wrong with the government promoting the French language. If you want to give breaks to companies that do business in french, or who hire more french workers, be my guest. But making it illegal to conduct business in english, or essentially making it illegal to have signs in English, to me that crosses the line.
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No. You are exacly wrong, they most certainly have the right to do so.
 
lecoqsportif said:
This is a tempest in tea pot. The vast majority of large corporations know they need social license to operate in a particular jurisdiction and to comply to collective standards and expectations. I suspect they will comply and this issue will wither away.
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I suspect they will go to court seeing as how trademarks are a federal jurisdiction.

Quebec is just being anti business as usual.
 
If businessses would stand up to the government instead of always caving in like spineless jellyfish we wouldn't have this mess to begin with. I remember reading years ago that Levesque and Laurin were as shocked as anyone else when big companies like Eaton's dropped the apostrophe "S" from their signs. Laurin said that he expected these companies to tell Quebec to shove it and that the PQ was prepared to back down on it. But when these companies just rolled over they couldn't believe their luck. And of course it only encouraged them to be even more oppressive later on, just to see how far they could go.
 
lecoqsportif said:
How is this anti-business? What is the net commercial impact of complying with these regulations?
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Pissing off more and more businesses who have more than enough regulations to begin with. From the size of English compared to french and how to name pasta in a menu to a small Facebook business having to be in French to a francaphone needing to change the name of his small business because the acronym wasn't french enough this will add to the already insane amount of regulations that drive businesses and people out of quebec.
 
Some pretty bitter people here. Hopefully it will not lead to someone going nuts like that guy in South Carolina.
 
lecoqsportif said:
This is small potatoes for most of these retailers. They'll comply.
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Two points.

1. These same companies toke the quebec government to court last year and won against against a very similar proposal.

2. You fail to realize that this is a death by a million cuts. If this was the only regulation there was with doing business in Quebec it would be small potatoes. This not the only regulation, it's probably in the hundreds by now and that's not including the olf. Size of English versus french. Online Facebook businesses needing to have a french page. PASTAGATE. Seriously, antipasti is a crime now. Wellarc, a company created by a french Canadian teen using french words to create a acronym is considered too ENGLISH.

These are all things quebec business owners need to deal with on a regular basis and now the government wants to add this regulation on top of everything else.

This contributes to the exodus of English speaking quebecers and the weak economic performance of quebec. When businesses need to jump through that many hoops it makes sense why they would rather be elsewhere. Calgary, Toronto, anywhere they don't need to deal with that stupidity. To appease the nationalists governments of quebec, liberal and PQ have reduced a once great province to a basket welfare case surving off handouts from the rest of Canada. God forbid quebec didn't receive its 8 billion dollar equalization payment from ottawa. Proud, french and accepting pity donations.
 
XPOFAN said:
Some pretty bitter people here. Hopefully it will not lead to someone going nuts like that guy in South Carolina.
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Thankfully I moved out of that shit hole a long time ago. I'm bitter for friends of mine who have all the qualifications in the world but work at Tim Hortons because it means jack all if you mess up one word of french in a interview.
 
Habitants87 said:
Thankfully I moved out of that shit hole a long time ago. I'm bitter for friends of mine who have all the qualifications in the world but work at Tim Hortons because it means jack all if you mess up one word of french in a interview.
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Maybe your friends don't have all the qualifications that they think they have. Messing up one word of French will not deny them of a job. If it did then they have a pretty good case for a lawsuit.
 
GrandWazoo said:
Maybe your friends don't have all the qualifications that they think they have. Messing up one word of French will not deny them of a job. If it did then they have a pretty good case for a lawsuit.
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Has all of the same qualifications as everyone else he went to school with.

Had a interview and they stated that it was to be held all in French. No English. He makes it halfway through and the person running the interview says something extremely fast. Instead of saying je m'excuse he says sorry, followed by je m'excuse but the interview was over.

He talked to a lawyer they said it would be impossible to prove. Currently working at Tim Hortons but having more luck in his field in Toronto. He loves montreal but 2 years after graduation and not being able to find a job will make people leave.
 
Habitants87 said:
Thankfully I moved out of that shit hole a long time ago. I'm bitter for friends of mine who have all the qualifications in the world but work at Tim Hortons because it means jack all if you mess up one word of french in a interview.
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Thank God you were able to get out. Certainly you can lend a hand to your oppressed friends so they too can taste the sweet taste of freedom.
 
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