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OT: Politics & News... Have at it.

WeHaveMoreCupsThanYou said:
If one mass shooting is averted then it's worth doing IMHO. But in addition to these measures the only thing that will make an impact is to re-interpret the intent of the Founding Fathers when they wrote the Second Amendment. Or they need to repeal it altogether.
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If banning alcohol would have preventing one mass shooting, would you say the same thing? You can apply that logic to a lot of things, it's a slippery slope.
 
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Nelson Mandela would be too busy worrying about the decline of freedom and democracy in south Africa to care IMHO.
 
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GrandWazoo said:
I banning alcohol would have preventing one mass shooting, would you say the same thing? You can apply that logic to a lot of things, it's a slippery slope.
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Well, something should be done. Gun violence in the states, per capital, tops the western world. Now I know America likes going on about being number 1, but this isn't a category you want to be dominant in.
 
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And because they can't agree they choose instead to do nothing which is precisely what the NRA and the GOP want.

I don't see any slippery slope here. Other countries have strict gun control and, lo and behold, they don't have nearly as many gun deaths as the US. Gun control works. It doesn't eliminate all gun violence, but in countries that enforce it gun violence is pretty much a non-issue.

The root of the problem is that too many Americans view guns (and their inalienable right to own them) as an extension of their penises. It's positively juvenile. Anyone who needs a firearm to feel like a man is someone who should probably not be allowed to own one in the first place. In other, more grown up and mature countries people don't need a gun to assert their own identity and define their self-worth.
 
The major problem with implementing gun control in the US, and the major difference with other countries, is the sheer number of guns already in circulation. What do you do with those?
 
WeHaveMoreCupsThanYou said:
Don't tell me that a background check and registration for firearms isn't worth doing just because "criminals" won't abide by the rules. You have to get a licence to drive and if you buy a car you have to register and insure it. Just because some people drive without licences or insurance doesn't mean we should get rid of licencing drivers and registering their vehicles. By that logic we should just wipe all the laws prohibiting murder because criminals will still murder people even if it's against the law.

We have now reached the tipping point in the US where gun deaths now outnumber deaths in automobile accidents. I don't think they got there because people suddenly became more conscientious drivers and stopped having so many accidents.

To me it's simple: you want a gun? Fine. You get a licence to operate it safely. That licencing process will include a background check. If you're a convicted felon, you don't get a licence. If you've spent time in a lunatic asylum, you don't get a licence. And if you do get a licence and use it to buy a gun be prepared to pay for insurance just like you do with a car. Your licence expires or your insurance lapses? Bye bye gun. You get arrested in possession of a firearm while intoxicated? Bye bye gun. You get caught with a firearm and you don't have a licence and/or insurance? Your gun goes bye bye, you get fined and/or jailed and you are prohibited from owning another gun. You commit a crime with the gun? You never get to own one ever again.

You can't pretend to advocate "responsible gun ownership" as the NRA does, and then oppose every measure that would put the onus on those supposedly responsible people. A responsible gun owner with nothing to hide should be able to handle and store one safely and securely. They should have a licence to prove that and every gun they own should be registered and insured. It won't end all gun violence but it will at least demonstrate that gun ownership carries with it a lot of responsibility specifically because guns are inherently dangerous.

Think about this for just a second and let it sink in: You can't get a job as a department store Santa Claus without a background check and a drug test but you can waltz into a gun show and buy enough firepower to start a war with nothing more than a credit card. Hell, the credit card doesn't even have to belong to you. Just steal someone else's.
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You absolutely cannot waltz into a gun show and purchase guns without a background check. You wait there while your name is run through the fbi and police databases. You're so off base with your understanding of legally purchased firearms that it's laughable. Furthermore, unless you have a conceal and carry permit, which means you've gone through an extensive background check, you have to wait five days before receiving your handgun. You can't just walk out with one.

Educate yourself.
 
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Barack Obama ‏
Twenty-three years and still going strong. Here's to many more. #HappyAnniversary

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Habsy said:
It was actually fraught with inaccuracies but you finger pointing judgemental foreigners wouldn't think to fact check. Say the same bs over and over and it becomes true right? It's the liberal mantra.
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finger pointing foreigners?

There is absolutely no reason on Earth for anyone to own the arsenals many of you yanks own. Then again, you are a paranoid people, after all, the bogeyman govt is going to show up one day and take away your guns. OMG.
 
Habsy said:
You absolutely cannot waltz into a gun show and purchase guns without a background check. You wait there while your name is run through the fbi and police databases. You're so off base with your understanding of legally purchased firearms that it's laughable. Furthermore, unless you have a conceal and carry permit, which means you've gone through an extensive background check, you have to wait five days before receiving your handgun. You can't just walk out with one.

Educate yourself.
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Yeah there is some huge misconceptions about gun shows.
 
TheCountofMonteCristo said:
finger pointing foreigners?

There is absolutely no reason on Earth for anyone to own the arsenals many of you yanks own. Then again, you are a paranoid people, after all, the bogeyman govt is going to show up one day and take away your guns. OMG.
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Actually there is.....if the foundation of the society is based in a militia gaining freedom & independence, just sayin...
 
So I guess the people of Sparta should still commit infanticide given that was the foundation of their society.

Surely you aren't trying to argue that a frontier society facing risks from Indians which required muskets as defence can use that as a justification to you and I to own machine guns.
 
TheCountofMonteCristo said:
So I guess the people of Sparta should still commit infanticide given that was the foundation of their society.

Surely you aren't trying to argue that a frontier society facing risks from Indians which required muskets as defence can use that as a justification to you and I to own machine guns.
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Again, if Americans don't care about gun violence(complete inaction after Sandy hook) it's time to stop caring about these mass shootings.

Sandy hook was the best chance for significant change, and nothing came of it.

This shooting is nothing in comparison. Sad as that is. But it's just the way it is.
 
You are right. If the mass murder of six year olds wasn't enough, then nothing will change attitudes.

Every time you heard the same thing, control laws wouldn't have prevented this shooting, it is mental health issues, why should law abiding have to go through checks etc

Well, if the rest of the world has gun control and for the most part it seems to work, maybe just maybe, the US is out of step. However, like with health care before Obama, the Americans figure if they are the only country doing it one way, then the rest of the world is wrong.
 
TheCountofMonteCristo said:
So I guess the people of Sparta should still commit infanticide given that was the foundation of their society.

Surely you aren't trying to argue that a frontier society facing risks from Indians which required muskets as defence can use that as a justification to you and I to own machine guns.
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The guy in Idaho or Oklahoma, whose nearest neighbor is 10-miles away, only has his land, God & gun.

The electoral college was meant to represent the society of the founding fathers in 1776, with evenly distributed population, not today's dense city populaces.
 
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