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OT: Politics & News... Have at it.

CaptainBolduke said:
Put it this way:

When the USA decided that 20 four and five year olds getting their heads blown off by a legally bought weapon was ok (no one even talks about Sandy Hook anymore) the gun debate ended in the States.

Frankly, if Americans don't care about the death they bring to each-other, why should we?

I used to care and feel bad for Americans when it came to guns, but when they decided that Sandy Hook was no big deal I stopped caring.
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Don't get it wrong, they care, they are just disagreeing on the way to solve this issue. It's way more complicated that it may seems. With the amount of guns already in circulation in the US, a simple ban wouldn't solve anything. Background checks and gun registration won't solve anything either. So if it won't solve anything, why do it?
 
So the President asked the media to fact-check the number of people killed by guns and this was what CNN came up with at least;

The number of people killed from terror attacks in the United States between 2004 and 2013 totals 36;

during that same span, the number of dead across America from firearms stands at more than 316,000.

That of course probably includes bad guy killing bad guy such as in gangs or Police killing bad guys (so they say) but certainly a lot of innocent people do end up dead as a result of gun violence.

It is amazing though that if a single person dies due to terrorism then that is splashed across the media pages like wildfire but so many gun killings are put in small columns in the newspaper next to the sale at the Linen Factory. No one really cares unless it affects you close to home.
 
Amazing to hear today that one of the 3 American train hero's in France said he would have surely been at the campus yesterday where the killings took place had the train incident not occurred.
 
Also hearing today that the gunmen got all of his weapons legally... had a bunch more in his apartment. He apparently was starting to get angry with society especially black males and talked a lot about some of the other massacre attacks recently as if those guys were hero's or something. Gee... I guess no one saw what happened yesterday coming though. At what point do we start to put some blame on family members or friends for not reporting people who talk about massacre killers as wonderful as they play with their multiple guns and body armor?
 
Lotusland said:
Also hearing today that the gunmen got all of his weapons legally... had a bunch more in his apartment. He apparently was starting to get angry with society especially black males and talked a lot about some of the other massacre attacks recently as if those guys were hero's or something. Gee... I guess no one saw what happened yesterday coming though. At what point do we start to put some blame on family members or friends for not reporting people who talk about massacre killers as wonderful as they play with their multiple guns and body armor?
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The guy sounds like your average Fox News devotee. Only on Fox do you get the impression that Christianity is under attack or that climate change needs more study. Fox News is the only media outlet that openly blames black people for their own misfortune because racism (according to them) no longer exists, except against white people.
 
GrandWazoo said:
Don't get it wrong, they care, they are just disagreeing on the way to solve this issue. It's way more complicated that it may seems. With the amount of guns already in circulation in the US, a simple ban wouldn't solve anything. Background checks and gun registration won't solve anything either. So if it won't solve anything, why do it?
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Don't tell me that a background check and registration for firearms isn't worth doing just because "criminals" won't abide by the rules. You have to get a licence to drive and if you buy a car you have to register and insure it. Just because some people drive without licences or insurance doesn't mean we should get rid of licencing drivers and registering their vehicles. By that logic we should just wipe all the laws prohibiting murder because criminals will still murder people even if it's against the law.

We have now reached the tipping point in the US where gun deaths now outnumber deaths in automobile accidents. I don't think they got there because people suddenly became more conscientious drivers and stopped having so many accidents.

To me it's simple: you want a gun? Fine. You get a licence to operate it safely. That licencing process will include a background check. If you're a convicted felon, you don't get a licence. If you've spent time in a lunatic asylum, you don't get a licence. And if you do get a licence and use it to buy a gun be prepared to pay for insurance just like you do with a car. Your licence expires or your insurance lapses? Bye bye gun. You get arrested in possession of a firearm while intoxicated? Bye bye gun. You get caught with a firearm and you don't have a licence and/or insurance? Your gun goes bye bye, you get fined and/or jailed and you are prohibited from owning another gun. You commit a crime with the gun? You never get to own one ever again.

You can't pretend to advocate "responsible gun ownership" as the NRA does, and then oppose every measure that would put the onus on those supposedly responsible people. A responsible gun owner with nothing to hide should be able to handle and store one safely and securely. They should have a licence to prove that and every gun they own should be registered and insured. It won't end all gun violence but it will at least demonstrate that gun ownership carries with it a lot of responsibility specifically because guns are inherently dangerous.

Think about this for just a second and let it sink in: You can't get a job as a department store Santa Claus without a background check and a drug test but you can waltz into a gun show and buy enough firepower to start a war with nothing more than a credit card. Hell, the credit card doesn't even have to belong to you. Just steal someone else's.
 
WeHaveMoreCupsThanYou said:
Don't tell me that a background check and registration for firearms isn't worth doing just because "criminals" won't abide by the rules. You have to get a licence to drive and if you buy a car you have to register and insure it. Just because some people drive without licences or insurance doesn't mean we should get rid of licencing drivers and registering their vehicles. By that logic we should just wipe all the laws prohibiting murder because criminals will still murder people even if it's against the law.

We have now reached the tipping point in the US where gun deaths now outnumber deaths in automobile accidents. I don't think they got there because people suddenly became more conscientious drivers and stopped having so many accidents.

To me it's simple: you want a gun? Fine. You get a licence to operate it safely. That licencing process will include a background check. If you're a convicted felon, you don't get a licence. If you've spent time in a lunatic asylum, you don't get a licence. And if you do get a licence and use it to buy a gun be prepared to pay for insurance just like you do with a car. Your licence expires or your insurance lapses? Bye bye gun. You get arrested in possession of a firearm while intoxicated? Bye bye gun. You get caught with a firearm and you don't have a licence and/or insurance? Your gun goes bye bye, you get fined and/or jailed and you are prohibited from owning another gun. You commit a crime with the gun? You never get to own one ever again.

You can't pretend to advocate "responsible gun ownership" as the NRA does, and then oppose every measure that would put the onus on those supposedly responsible people. A responsible gun owner with nothing to hide should be able to handle and store one safely and securely. They should have a licence to prove that and every gun they own should be registered and insured. It won't end all gun violence but it will at least demonstrate that gun ownership carries with it a lot of responsibility specifically because guns are inherently dangerous.

Think about this for just a second and let it sink in: You can't get a job as a department store Santa Claus without a background check and a drug test but you can waltz into a gun show and buy enough firepower to start a war with nothing more than a credit card. Hell, the credit card doesn't even have to belong to you. Just steal someone else's.
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Best post ever.
 
WeHaveMoreCupsThanYou said:
Don't tell me that a background check and registration for firearms isn't worth doing just because "criminals" won't abide by the rules. You have to get a licence to drive and if you buy a car you have to register and insure it. Just because some people drive without licences or insurance doesn't mean we should get rid of licencing drivers and registering their vehicles. By that logic we should just wipe all the laws prohibiting murder because criminals will still murder people even if it's against the law.

We have now reached the tipping point in the US where gun deaths now outnumber deaths in automobile accidents. I don't think they got there because people suddenly became more conscientious drivers and stopped having so many accidents.

To me it's simple: you want a gun? Fine. You get a licence to operate it safely. That licencing process will include a background check. If you're a convicted felon, you don't get a licence. If you've spent time in a lunatic asylum, you don't get a licence. And if you do get a licence and use it to buy a gun be prepared to pay for insurance just like you do with a car. Your licence expires or your insurance lapses? Bye bye gun. You get arrested in possession of a firearm while intoxicated? Bye bye gun. You get caught with a firearm and you don't have a licence and/or insurance? Your gun goes bye bye, you get fined and/or jailed and you are prohibited from owning another gun. You commit a crime with the gun? You never get to own one ever again.

You can't pretend to advocate "responsible gun ownership" as the NRA does, and then oppose every measure that would put the onus on those supposedly responsible people. A responsible gun owner with nothing to hide should be able to handle and store one safely and securely. They should have a licence to prove that and every gun they own should be registered and insured. It won't end all gun violence but it will at least demonstrate that gun ownership carries with it a lot of responsibility specifically because guns are inherently dangerous.

Think about this for just a second and let it sink in: You can't get a job as a department store Santa Claus without a background check and a drug test but you can waltz into a gun show and buy enough firepower to start a war with nothing more than a credit card. Hell, the credit card doesn't even have to belong to you. Just steal someone else's.
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I agree with the background check and license (for the record I'm very much anti-guns, I'm just bringing up arguments from the other side). A big proportion of gun owners don't have an issue with it either. There is actually quite a few states that do have those. But it still won't solve the problem of those killings. It might prevent one here and there but as a whole will have little effect. Most of the killers have or would have passed those tests.

I've just read this interesting article about this debate. (https://reason.com/archives/2015/09/21/little-honest-talk-about-guns) It actually mentioned an analysis that found out that only 1 of the 30 killings that happened between 2003 and 2013 would have been stopped by background checks. While it makes sense, those checks might have a different goals than actually preventing those killings.
 
If one mass shooting is averted then it's worth doing IMHO. But in addition to these measures the only thing that will make an impact is to re-interpret the intent of the Founding Fathers when they wrote the Second Amendment. Or they need to repeal it altogether.
 
WeHaveMoreCupsThanYou said:
If one mass shooting is averted then it's worth doing IMHO. But in addition to these measures the only thing that will make an impact is to re-interpret the intent of the Founding Fathers when they wrote the Second Amendment. Or they need to repeal it altogether.
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I would say that would be the direct cause of the 2nd American Civil War then I look at how many people value the second amendment in progressive states and realize it would be a general uprising.
 
Funny moment in the French language debate last night when Trudeau was debating Duceppe and wanted to say "mon ami" but instead said "mon amour". After the debate he tweeted.

Justin Trudeau ‏
Ne t'inquiète pas Sophie... C'est bien toi #MonAmour.
 
WeHaveMoreCupsThanYou said:
If one mass shooting is averted then it's worth doing IMHO. But in addition to these measures the only thing that will make an impact is to re-interpret the intent of the Founding Fathers when they wrote the Second Amendment. Or they need to repeal it altogether.
Click to expand...



The crux of the problem IMO stems from the electoral college - in particular the "power" it provides the Dakotas, Idaho's etc.. - the rural vote. This isn't 1776 anymore....



If the US was a majority voting system, politicians would use gun control as a tool to win votes - both Dems and GOP...

2nd amendment is a convenient means to frame an argument, the root cause is the power possessed by the "irrelevant states".
 
I've become "numb" to the problem too. I've reached the point of not really caring about it, and I live here. Hopefully it will never impact my family or me personally. That's the best I can do.
 
XPOFAN said:
You can do more
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Hate to sound defeatist but no one can in the here & now, until the "face" of the country changes - this is an A.D.D society. Not enough people care, or are outraged for more than the standard 3-day coverage on CNN, FOX. Combine that with the reality of American independence being gained through the militia's use of a gun, and that symbol is ingrained in the "heartland"...

Bill Maher, a symbol of liberalism, is a gun owner, as he says: "I just gave up, and bought one for protection, have to accept we live in a gun culture in this country".
 
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