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OT: The News Thread

Re: OT - The News Thread

Those lions have WASHBOARD STOMACHES. Pure WASHBOARD. I have a guy that could get them playing four on four on the savannah in under three months and you can bet that all the losers from the waterhole wouldn't be able to crack it in this league. Those zebras for instance, no talent hack-and-chops, NO hips or East-West movement. You can't win on the Serengetti unless you have HIPS and the Lions' washboards.
 
Re: OT - The News Thread

no doubt.

But if we're talking about an animal's quality of life. well.....which one of us would go live naked in the wild if we had a choice?


I didn't realize that animals were fed AND clothed at the Zoo.

A lot of anthropomorphication going on in this thread.
 
Re: OT - The News Thread

Those lions have WASHBOARD STOMACHES. Pure WASHBOARD. I have a guy that could get them playing four on four on the savannah in under three months and you can bet that all the losers from the waterhole wouldn't be able to crack it in this league. Those zebras for instance, no talent hack-and-chops, NO hips or East-West movement. You can't win on the Serengetti unless you have HIPS and the Lions' washboards.
Good try.

Not quite enough commas though.
 
Re: OT - The News Thread

Those lions have WASHBOARD STOMACHES. Pure WASHBOARD. I have a guy that could get them playing four on four on the savannah in under three months and you can bet that all the losers from the waterhole wouldn't be able to crack it in this league. Those zebras for instance, no talent hack-and-chops, NO hips or East-West movement. You can't win on the Serengetti unless you have HIPS and the Lions' washboards.

:smilielol5::smilielol5::smilielol5:
 
Re: OT - The News Thread

Holocaust denier Ernst Zundel released from prison

March 01, 2010

George Frey

MANNHEIM, GERMANY—Far-right German activist Ernst Zundel was freed after serving five years in prison for denying the Holocaust ever happened — something he wouldn’t speak about Monday.

The 70-year-old had been extradited in 2005 from Canada, where he spent some additional time behind bars on the German warrant after having been deported from the United States for alleged immigration violations.

A crowd of 20 supporters on Monday morning clapped and shouted “bravo” as Zundel emerged from the prison in Mannheim. Some handed him flowers as he passed through the prison’s steel gates.

“I’m back out after seven years, three weeks, three prisons and three countries,” Zundel said, declining to comment when asked whether the Holocaust happened. He also served some time in prison in North America.

“It’s kind of a sad situation; there’s a lot to say. I’ll certainly be careful not to offend anyone and their draconian laws.”

Zundel was convicted on 14 counts of inciting hatred for years of anti-Semitic activities, including contributing to a Web site devoted to denying the Holocaust — a crime in Germany. The Web site’s accessibility made it possible for German prosecutors to charge him.

Zundel and his supporters had argued he was exercising his right to free speech.

On Monday he gave no details about his future plans, saying only that he wanted to improve his health and would return to his home region in the Black Forest.

“Having spent the last seven years in a ‘chicken coop,’ I’ve gained a lot of weight. I have to lose that. I have to get checked out in a hospital,” Zundel told reporters outside the Mannheim prison, though did not indicate that he was ill.

He said he was unsure if he would return to Canada, where he had lived in both Toronto and Montreal for years after emigrating in 1958. He was rejected twice for Canadian citizenship and moved to Pigeon Forge, Tennessee, but was sent back to Canada in 2003.

In February 2005, a Canadian judge ruled that Zundel’s activities were a threat to national security as well as “the international community of nations,” clearing the way for his deportation to Germany later that year.

One of his lawyers on Monday criticized the five-year sentence in Germany as having been too severe, saying there had been a lack of justice due to the fact that the Holocaust is a sensitive subject in Germany.

“I’m happy that he made it,” attorney Alexandra Rittershaus said. “It was a hard and frustrating time” during which she said he was initially not allowed to receive all of some 1,700 letters because officials feared it would “threaten his resocialization.”

Supporters outside the prison called Zundel “a brave man” and “a victim of justice,” while some maintained there still was no evidence that anyone was gassed to death at Nazi concentration camps during World War II.

Meanwhile, another Holocaust disputer had his Austrian prison sentence reduced Monday from five years to four. Austrian author Gerd Honsik — who wrote “Hitler Innocent?” — was sentenced in April after being arrested in Spain, to where he had fled following his original 1992 conviction for writings that defended Adolf Hitler’s Third Reich.

A Vienna court ruled Monday that Honsik’s five-year sentence was too hefty.

http://www.thestar.com/news/world/a...denier-ernst-zundel-released-from-prison?bn=1
 
Re: OT - The News Thread

while some maintained there still was no evidence that anyone was gassed to death at Nazi concentration camps during World War II.

There aren't enough Picard face palms in the world for garbage like this...
 
Re: OT - The News Thread

I agree, but I have serious issues with imprisoning people for their beliefs, however misguided and hateful they may be.

It only exposes the weakness of our democracies which, lest we forget, was a key factor enabling the Nazis to take power in Germany and a major target of their propaganda.
 
Re: OT - The News Thread

Well, that's the key issue here. I agree with you that there should be virtually no limits on free speech, but in this instance I do feel that there is a legitimate concern given the history of extremism typically levelled at Jews. Even Hitler and Goebbels began at a progressively more moderate state from what were initially just claims of Jewish sabotage to the German war effort in WWI to outright fabrications of historic evils, to confiscation of business and properties, to imprisonment in concentration and work camps to... well, most of us know where that road led in the end. Free speech is a wonderful, inalienable component of democracy, but it should have limits where it leads to the incitement of violence against identifiable groups. I have no problems with some distasteful "big nose" or banking type jokes (or the off the colour Borat-type stuff), but there needs to be a limit when people begin to fear for their safety or have a history of marginalization discounted.
 
Re: OT - The News Thread

In a stronger democracy they never would have got much further than being lunatic fringe, shit disturbers. A huge part of their enabling early on was a corrupt military and judiciary.
 
Re: OT - The News Thread

True, but I will say in fairness that the Allies at the Treaty of Versailles were fairly militant and unfair in placing a disproportionate burden of the blame for WWI's destruction on the German people. It's understandable how "lunatic fringe" shit disturbers (which you so accurately put, haha) could exploit lingering feelings of resentment and humiliation like that given how the rest of the world acted after the cessation of hostilities.
 
Re: OT - The News Thread

True, but I will say in fairness that the Allies at the Treaty of Versailles were fairly militant and unfair in placing a disproportionate burden of the blame for WWI's destruction on the German people. It's understandable how "lunatic fringe" shit disturbers (which you so accurately put, haha) could exploit lingering feelings of resentment and humiliation like that given how the rest of the world acted after the cessation of hostilities.
It's an interesting history to be sure - the Treaty and its application. The issue of assigning war guilt has figured prominently in the historiography. However, it's probably more important to focus on the application of the reparations. They were severe, but they were unevenly applied. The Allies put the screws to Germany whenever SPD and commies were in control and eased off considerably when centre-right governments were in power during Weimar. Whenever they were ratcheted up, it poured fuel on the fire. This was done in an effort to prevent a commie revolution in Germany, which was a real threat after the war, and even to curb social democrat power.

There is no doubt in my mind that the Germans were plainly the aggressor in WWI. The war aims were, in fact, virtually identical, if less grandiose, to those of WWII. German imperialism and racial contempt for the territories they desired went hand in hand and had a long history going back to at least the last decade of the 19th century.
 
Re: OT - The News Thread

Germany was pretty aggressive in the first half of the 20th century and started two wars but technically, Austria-Hungary started WWI after Princip murdered the Archduke.

It is easy to crap on the Germans for racial policies in retrospect but no one liked jews back then, and many in western europe did think they were superior to the slavs of eastern europe.
 
Re: OT - The News Thread

That goes against everything that conservatism stands for and it pisses me off because it's a blatantly transparent attempt to win votes from the "progressive" element of the voting bloc. And it will backfire on the Tories just like John Tory's ill-advised religious schools tactic failed to get the left-wing support he thought it would.
 
Re: OT - The News Thread

Germany was pretty aggressive in the first half of the 20th century and started two wars but technically, Austria-Hungary started WWI after Princip murdered the Archduke.
They wanted the war and used this as the pretext to get it going.

It is easy to crap on the Germans for racial policies in retrospect but no one liked jews back then, and many in western europe did think they were superior to the slavs of eastern europe.

No, you're wrong here. While it is true that antisemitism was widespread in Europe and North America during this time, it was by no means universal and unopposed. It is not retrospective to point it out or criticize it, there was ample contemporary criticism and opposition to it, including within Germany. To suggest otherwise is to fall prey to the campaign of terror exercised by the Nazis that systematically wiped out this criticism and opposition within Germany.
 
Re: OT - The News Thread

Speaking of crimes against the peace ...

Blair Warned in 2000 Iraq War was Illegal
Secret papers withheld by Chilcot inquiry reveal Foreign Office fears over invasion

By Michael Savage, Political Correspondent

March 02, 2010 "The Independent" -- An invasion of Iraq was discussed within the Government more than two years before military action was taken – with Foreign Office mandarins warning that an invasion would be illegal, that it would claim "considerable casualties" and could lead to the breakdown of Iraq, The Independent can reveal.

The extent of Whitehall opposition to the policy eventually backed by Tony Blair emerges just three days before Gordon Brown will appear at the Iraq Inquiry, where he will be asked to explain his role in the Government's decision to invade.

Secret Foreign Office strategy papers drawn up by senior civil servants at the end of 2000 have been obtained by this newspaper and are published for the first time today. The Iraq: future strategy document considers options for dealing with the belligerent Iraqi leader Saddam Hussein. It is one of the key documents that Sir John Chilcot's Iraq Inquiry has declined to release.

A policy of "regime overthrow" is proposed, but roundly condemned. In an eerily portentous assessment of the consequences of taking military action, it states: "Such a policy would command no useful international support. An overt attempt to be successful would require a massive military effort, probably including a land invasion: this would risk considerable casualties and, possibly, extreme last-ditch acts of deterrence or defiance by Saddam."

The mandarins add: "It would also be illegal. Covert attempts, on the other hand, seem very unlikely to succeed and run the risk of fragmenting Iraq, which runs clearly contrary to our wider interests in the region." Iraq descended into violence in the wake of the March 2003 invasion. Hundreds of thousands of Iraqis were killed in the aftermath, as well as more than 100 British troops.

The document also calls into question Mr Blair's claim that using troops to bring down Saddam Hussein was only discussed after the 9/11 terror attacks on New York – and will increase pressure on the inquiry to call Mr Blair back to give further public evidence this summer.

Nick Clegg, the Liberal Democrats' leader, said it was "yet more damning evidence" against Mr Blair's decision to take Britain to war in Iraq. He also warned that the fact that the document had not been published by the Chilcot inquiry raised "serious questions" about its powers to reveal sensitive material. The Government has retained the power to veto publication of classified documents. Protocols agreed between the Chilcot team and Whitehall hand the final say on publication of disputed documents to the head of the Civil Service, Sir Gus O'Donnell.

Requests to secure the document using the Freedom of Information Act were initially refused. However, the Foreign Office eventually agreed to release a redacted version – with the views of the United States and other countries blacked out – after The Independent demanded an internal review. "Releasing the paper would make Government more accountable and increase trust," the Foreign Office conceded. "There is public interest in being able to assess the quality of advice being given to ministers and subsequent decision-making."

Critics of the decision to go to war pounced on the document. "Days before Gordon Brown will try to defend his role at the heart of the Government that took us to war, this is yet more damning evidence against the attempt to justify the invasion of Iraq," Mr Clegg said. "The Foreign Office was clearly advising against regime change as illegal and counter to our national interest."

The strategy paper was commissioned by Sir William Patey, then head of Middle East policy at the Foreign Office, ahead of the November 2000 presidential election which brought George Bush to the White House.

It states that a 1999 United Nations resolution, demanding that weapons inspectors be given access to Iraq, was "beginning to fray at the edges", and would soon "lose credibility" should Saddam fail to co-operate with inspectors. However, it recommends that the policy of "containing" Saddam, and perhaps loosening the sanctions imposed on the Baghdad regime, remained "the best option for achieving our policy objectives towards Iraq". It concludes: "Other alternatives remain unattractive at this stage."



The document in question

iraqstrategy_331921a.jpg


http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/blair-warned-in-2000-iraq-war-was-illegal-1914293.html
 
Re: OT - The News Thread

That goes against everything that conservatism stands for and it pisses me off because it's a blatantly transparent attempt to win votes from the "progressive" element of the voting bloc. And it will backfire on the Tories just like John Tory's ill-advised religious schools tactic failed to get the left-wing support he thought it would.


i agree entirely, and i hope this fails.

but it shows you just how powerful the olympics were for us. its no coinky-dink that this is happening right after the olympics and all the medals won by women.
 
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