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OT: The Official Toronto Raptors Thread

MyNameIsJonas said:
Im meh on the GSW deal

I'd do it for the Keegan Murray deal but i still dont think Sac does it.

I dont want a grab bag of picks and i dont think i want the Pacer Mav or Hawk stuff
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The Hawks deal is different than the other two. Jalen Johnson can contribute now. It would imbalance us a bit for the rest of the year until we chose which of Jake or Capela we wanted to keep, but Jalen Johnson can play. It would be like trading Pascal for a 22 yr old OG again, with the same type of upside we hoped 22 yr old OG had.


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W4QXIllAV2I

More athletic/fluid than OG. The open 3 has taken a step forward this year and projects as a weapon, but has a nice shooting form and has shown the ability to pull up in the mid range off the dribble when chased off the line. Can defend 3-4 positions and is projectable as a premium shut down wing in a few years. I'd have a hard time saying not to this one as well when the alternative is 50 million to Pascal, who I like and think can work with this group of young guys but is not a veteran max player imo.

Basically, if we're trading Pascal I want a package that includes one high calibre rotation/starting level young player who can slot in now. Another player who is high rotation quality and then a pick/project thrown in on top and we're good.

Sacto with Keegan as the front line young player, Huerter as the high rotation guy
Atlanta with Johnson as the guy who immediately starts, Capela as the high rotation (or turning him around at the deadline for a player of similar cost who can do the same for us at a different position)
GSW breaks down a bit here as neither Kuminga or Moody are Keegan/Johnson quality yet, but Kuminga's upside is at least as high as either's and he's not too far off in quality right now. Moody-Wiggins as the rotation players would add nice depth.

The other deals can go fuck.
 
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MindzEye said:
The Hawks deal is different than the other two. Jalen Johnson can contribute now. It would imbalance us a bit for the rest of the year until we chose which of Jake or Capela we wanted to keep, but Jalen Johnson can play. It would be like trading Pascal for a 22 yr old OG again, with the same type of upside we hoped 22 yr old OG had.


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W4QXIllAV2I
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Yeah thats fair, i did not know who or what a Jalen Johnson is.

If he's a legit help now building block, then i slot it right behind the Sac deal, which in no way do i think Sac does.
 
I'd love for someone to trade us a young player better than Pascal in return for Pascal too but that shit isn't happening. Teams are interested in him as a 2nd or 3rd option in their group, they're not going to give up a 2nd option level scorer to get him. I still think it's a net positive if you bring in 2 good offensive players (Murray and Huerter for example) and you give Pascal's shots (16.3)+ shots being poorly utilized in your offence (Gary's 10.2) to Quickley (2), Scottie (2), Murray (12) & Huerter (10).
 
MindzEye said:
I'd love for someone to trade us a young player better than Pascal in return for Pascal too but that shit isn't happening. Teams are interested in him as a 2nd or 3rd option in their group, they're not going to give up a 2nd option level scorer to get him. I still think it's a net positive if you bring in 2 good offensive players (Murray and Huerter for example) and you give Pascal's shots (16.3)+ shots being poorly utilized in your offence (Gary's 10.2) to Quickley (2), Scottie (2), Murray (12) & Huerter (10).
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Exactly , giving the Raps more functional rotational payers and depth

Then you hope Scottie turns into alpha dog and IQ the Robin
 
GEEMAN said:
Exactly , giving the Raps more functional rotational payers and depth

Then you hope Scottie turns into alpha dog and IQ the Robin
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Honestly like the idea of a 1A/1B Scottie-Quickley offence. Though if Scottie finds a mid range game a la Kawhi to go with the improved 3 point shooting and the bully ball inside, yeah fuck it just give him the ears and the cape, let's go.

Something like Scottie-Quickley-Murray is like running back Pascal-Fred-OG, but they're all 22-23 and better, maybe significantly better across the board within 1-2 years.
 
MindzEye said:
I'd love for someone to trade us a young player better than Pascal in return for Pascal too but that shit isn't happening. Teams are interested in him as a 2nd or 3rd option in their group, they're not going to give up a 2nd option level scorer to get him. I still think it's a net positive if you bring in 2 good offensive players (Murray and Huerter for example) and you give Pascal's shots (16.3)+ shots being poorly utilized in your offence (Gary's 10.2) to Quickley (2), Scottie (2), Murray (12) & Huerter (10).
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If OG can get us Quickley no reason Siakam can't get us something similar.
 
zeke said:
If OG can get us Quickley no reason Siakam can't get us something similar.
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I'd argue that Keegan Murray or Jalen Johnson are both kinda similar. Both pretty easily have high efficiency 20+ ppg upside imo.

Also, there is only one Knicks. Not a lot of teams out here with a probably all star guard just hanging out on the bench being under utilized. Quickley was ranked 37th in the NBA in OBPM at the time of the trade (12th among players 24 and under ffs...)

That list of 24 & unders:

Tyrese (9.8 OBPM)
Luka
Maxey
Simons
Scottie (4.3)
Sengun
Lamelo
Zion
Antman
Chet
Jah
Quickley (2.4)
Herro
Jalen Johnson (1.7)
Isiah Joe
Mark Williams
Banchero (we're down to 0.9 OBPM now)
Naz Reid
Vassell
Wagner

So yeah, we got Quickley for OG. Now tell me which of those do you want for Pascal?

Also fwiw, Pascal himself has a OBPM of 1.7

Also Fwiw, Quickley is one of the older players on that list and was a 1.4 last year at 23, 0.4 at 22. Regarding Jalen Johnson specifically. Think of it as not waiting until Quickley is 24 to trade for him, and instead picking him up at (just turned) 22.
 
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I like OKC two young guards off the bench. But I don’t see them being connected to Pascal enough tho I think it would be a great addition for them.
 
HabsFan1 said:
I like OKC two young guards off the bench. But I don’t see them being connected to Pascal enough tho I think it would be a great addition for them.
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They've already come out and said that they're not looking to advance their timeline at the cost of young players and honestly nor should they. Best young core in the league with a MVP calibre superstar, a fuckton of picks over the next few years, the best salary structure in the league, and so, so deep. They could land a "Pascal" level player whenever they want, and one that isn't going to make 50 million for the next bunch of years. Hit the playoffs this year, evaluate everyone and patiently go from there.

There will be a disgruntled star player interested in being Shai's robin within the next 12-18 months that OKC would be able to throw a winning package to get. I would keep an eye on Lauri Markannen personally.
 
MindzEye said:
I'd argue that Keegan Murray or Jalen Johnson are both kinda similar. Both pretty easily have high efficiency 20+ ppg upside imo.

Also, there is only one Knicks. Not a lot of teams out here with a probably all star guard just hanging out on the bench being under utilized. Quickley was ranked 37th in the NBA in OBPM at the time of the trade (12th among players 24 and under ffs...)

That list of 24 & unders:

Tyrese (9.8 OBPM)
Luka
Maxey
Simons
Scottie (4.3)
Sengun
Lamelo
Zion
Antman
Chet
Jah
Quickley (2.4)
Herro
Jalen Johnson (1.7)
Isiah Joe
Mark Williams
Banchero (we're down to 0.9 OBPM now)
Naz Reid
Vassell
Wagner

So yeah, we got Quickley for OG. Now tell me which of those do you want for Pascal?

Also fwiw, Pascal himself has a OBPM of 1.7

Also Fwiw, Quickley is one of the older players on that list and was a 1.4 last year at 23, 0.4 at 22. Regarding Jalen Johnson specifically. Think of it as not waiting until Quickley is 24 to trade for him, and instead picking him up at (just turned) 22.
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I'd be looking for an on-ball scorer for Siakam. If not, just keep him.
 
Quickley 25th overall in 2020

Jalen Johnson 20th in 2021

Yea how about we stop giving away 1st rounders and just draft better?
 
Eh, I wouldn't be so linear about it. Quickley is on his 3rd organization already. The NBA is a player movement league.

Also, the NBA draft is kind of a mess after the first handful of picks in most drafts and it's not a matter of smart organization vs dumb organization.

Tyrese Maxey was picked 21st by one of the dumbest organizations in the sport circa 2020, the Sixers. The 20th pick, made by one of the smartest organizations in the sport, the Miami Heat, was Precious Achiuwa.

Same draft, smart San Antonio took Devin Vassell 11th overall. Good player, good value at the 11 spot. Perennial mouth breathing Sacramento Kings took Tyrese Haliburton 12th. Shit happens.
 
Quickley got traded on draft night. 3rd organization is definitely a way to put it…

Fuck Poeltl and Thad Young. Keep those picks and draft better.
 
Acquire talent, don't overthink it.

Koloko vs Walker Kessler is going to be an interesting comparison if Koloko ever gets past long 'rona. His ceiling is higher, definitely.
 
I like that Raps got a decent lotto pick (pistons 2nd, which is like a late 1st) in the OG deal
 
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