• Moderators, please send me a PM if you are unable to access mod permissions. Thanks, Habsy.

OT: The Official Toronto Raptors Thread

Leafin' said:
Lots of chat about Wiggins being available for cheap/along with other assets. He just had a really shit year but was a pretty big piece when they won.

Who else is out there that is somewhat realistic? Pat Williams? Trey Murphy? These guys probably cost real assets. Especially Murphy.
Click to expand...

Wiggins is near the top of my misfit toy list. All of the problems are family/personal problems but the Warriors are in win now mode and there's probably nowhere better for Wiggins to get sorted than in Toronto. Given the state of NBA finances, he's on a reasonable as fuck deal as well for what he brings when he's locked in.

We can probably get Wiggins for Brown and Boucher or something similar.
 
Wiggins career best BPM is +0.4. The only time he's been a positive in his career. And he's 29 years old. Probably not getting any better.
 
zeke said:
Wiggins career best BPM is +0.4. The only time he's been a positive in his career. And he's 29 years old. Probably not getting any better.
Click to expand...

EPM thinks a fair bit better of him.

1717637166908.png

If you just accept last season as a personal issues driven mulligan, EPM thinks he's an ~80th percentile 2 way wing. I'm prone to agree and if Golden State is giving him away on the cheap-ish, I'd be happy to let him be the next RJ that loves home cooking and balls out here.

2 yrs left on his deal at 26 & 28 million, and not a super challenging guy to re sign on a budget friendly deal when he's 31.

Fwiw, I kind of want to start setting a precedent with our best Canadian players that we bring them home whenever possible. It's definitely how to attract Jamal, Shai, etc, etc later and build that into the culture of the Raptors. We're turning into a powerhouse nation from a talent development standpoint and it's probably a good idea to leverage that as much as we can.
 
MindzEye said:
EPM thinks a fair bit better of him.

View attachment 20698

If you just accept last season as a personal issues driven mulligan, EPM thinks he's an ~80th percentile 2 way wing. I'm prone to agree and if Golden State is giving him away on the cheap-ish, I'd be happy to let him be the next RJ that loves home cooking and balls out here.

2 yrs left on his deal at 26 & 28 million, and not a super challenging guy to re sign on a budget friendly deal when he's 31.

Fwiw, I kind of want to start setting a precedent with our best Canadian players that we bring them home whenever possible. It's definitely how to attract Jamal, Shai, etc, etc later and build that into the culture of the Raptors. We're turning into a powerhouse nation from a talent development standpoint and it's probably a good idea to leverage that as much as we can.
Click to expand...

interesting how much the defensive numbers jumped with GSW, at least until last year. Hard to tell if that's just the benefit of playing with a championship squad tho.

And RJ did ball out after coming here.....but even then, that just improved him from a big negative player to a bit over break even. And he was only 23.
 
Fwiw, just to refresh my wish listed

Big (assuming we trade Jake, which is a good assumption imo)
- Goga Bitadze
- Nic Claxton
- Bol Bol

Shooting Guard/Wing
- Lonnie Walker

Big Wing/3D
- Royce O'Neale
- Kelly Oubre

Backup PG/Point of attack defender
- Dennis Smith Jr
- Melton
- Lowry


With Wiggins probably at the top of the trade list. Would much rather Wiggins from Golden State than the NY Knicks 1st and Bogdanovich that I've heard mentioned.
 
Speaking of load management got me thinking that we dodged a bullet when Kawhi spurned us for LA

In Toronto he played all 24 playoff games in our chip run.

With the Clippers he’s played a total of 26 playoff games (IN FOUR YEARS) missing a total of 13 playoff games.

We simply caught lightning a bottle.
 
zeke said:
interesting how much the defensive numbers jumped with GSW, at least until last year. Hard to tell if that's just the benefit of playing with a championship squad tho.
Click to expand...

Where I think that's probably durable is that Golden State dropped from being an elite defensive team in Wiggins first 2 seasons there, to thoroughly mediocre in his 3rd year and his defensive EPM stayed the same. He went from a shit place that did a bad job developing him to an elite program and responded in a way that other talented headcases they brought in didn't. Does playing next to Draymond help? Absolutely, dude is as close to a quarterback as the NBA has defensively. Would he replace OG's defensive ability? No. But could he take those same matchups and not get eaten alive like we did last year in them? Yeah.
zeke said:
And RJ did ball out after coming here.....but even then, that just improved him from a big negative player to a bit over break even. And he was only 23.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I wouldn't expect any improvement. The idea is that getting him home would bring peak Wiggins back, which is a good 2 way wing, 80-85th percentile player that Golden State is basically giving away.

I mean, if the cost is Brown and stuff, you can look at it as an extension of the Pascal trade

1717638799901.png

Peak Wiggins isn't far off the impact of Peak Pascal, for half the money and some picks. Worth the risk imo.
 
CH1 said:
Speaking of load management got me thinking that we dodged a bullet when Kawhi spurned us for LA

In Toronto he played all 24 playoff games in our chip run.

With the Clippers he’s played a total of 26 playoff games (IN FOUR YEARS) missing a total of 13 playoff games.

We simply caught lightning a bottle.
Click to expand...

Maybe. Only counter point is that probably would have load managed him into a 2nd title. Kawhi broke after playing 40+ mpg for a few weeks straight in the playoffs. We were good enough that we didn't need that from him until the end of the Milwaukee series and the GS series. Maybe he still would have broke, but maybe not and we're back to back.

If we could have gotten him with one and a half legs intact to the finals against the Lakers, we probably fuck their day up. Marc Gasol would have become the proud father of a 2nd soft superstar centre in 2 years.
 
  • Like
Reactions: CH1
CH1 said:
Maybe.

I also like the idea that Kawhi might agree with you
Click to expand...

Kawhi also would have only taken a 1+1 with us most likely. So at worst if his leg blows up anyway we either trade him for fuck all to LAC anyway after having gotten our 2nd crack at it, or he stays for the 3rd season, which was Tampa bubble, he gets hurt again and we still get Scoottie.
 
CH1 said:
Speaking of load management got me thinking that we dodged a bullet when Kawhi spurned us for LA

In Toronto he played all 24 playoff games in our chip run.

With the Clippers he’s played a total of 26 playoff games (IN FOUR YEARS) missing a total of 13 playoff games.

We simply caught lightning a bottle.
Click to expand...
But also that roster was stacked and we actually effectively load managed him in the season. Don’t think that’s been the case with LAC
 
Wayward DP said:
But also that roster was stacked and we actually effectively load managed him in the season. Don’t think that’s been the case with LAC
Click to expand...

Yeah, I don't think they load manage nearly as effectively. In Toronto the most games he played consecutively (not counting the playoffs) was 9 and in the 2nd half of the season it was 5, which he only did twice and even within those 2 stretches of 5 games in a row 3 of the 10 games he played 27 minutes or less. They played him heavier in the 1st half (more games with 33+ minutes) than they did in the 2nd half where they babied the shit out of him. Yr 1 with the Clippers started out similar but right before the covid shut down Kawhi had played 16 of 17 games and then when the bubble playoffs came he played all but 2 of the next 21 games.

The following season (which ended with him blowing out his knee) started fucking wild. He played 15 of the first 17 games, the last 11 of those in a row and then 2 games off....then 8 games straight, then 3 off....then 14 of the next 15 games, a game off and then 9 straight....22 of 24 in total with all of them but 1 game being 30+ minutes and most of them 33-37 minutes. Fucking insanity. They had to then shut him down for a month and they ease him back into the lineup a few weeks before playoffs by playing him 6 games in a row, all 29+ mpg

11 playoff games at ~40mpg each and he blows his ACL.

Yeah, taking a bit of a dive into this, the takeway is that we load managed him way, way better. Way more regular and schedule rest, way more games where we would shut him down a 23-27 minutes because we were up 20 in the 4th, etc.
 
  • Like
Reactions: CH1
That’s good digging. Real good.

But how much of the load management came from Kawhi himself? We know from his Spurs tenure that Kawhi won’t play if he’s not up to it.

I think being in Toronto (not his preferred destination) might have made him more likely to sit out… whereas in LA, where he was pseudo GM, he most likely felt more internal pressure to suit up.


TL:dr going home isn’t always great
 
There were some hints from Kyle, Serge and others that it got real rocky around midway through that season too. Morale was low and it sounds like there was a lot of ugly internal conflict. They went through some shit. And Kawhi didn't want to be there in the first place so I could see why he'd choose to sit out pretty often
 
  • Like
Reactions: CH1
Preston said:
There were some hints from Kyle, Serge and others that it got real rocky around midway through that season too. Morale was low and it sounds like there was a lot of ugly internal conflict. They went through some shit. And Kawhi didn't want to be there in the first place so I could see why he'd choose to sit out pretty often
Click to expand...
It was rocky between Kawhi and the Raps midseason? I never heard anything like that. What were the hints you saw dropped?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top