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OT: The Toronto Blue Jays

I just named 9 times over the last 20 years that they were "middle of the pack" or higher.

Also, I said 2 or more times in another division.

They haven't been as bad over the last 20 years as you want to believe they have been.
 
Sorry I was only counting their solid seasons, not including the mediocre ones. 9 times in the last 20 years they were a .500 team or slightly better. Raise a banner.

A track record like that surely should attract top free agents.
 
leafman101 said:
Sorry I was only counting their solid seasons, not including the mediocre ones. 9 times in the last 20 years they were a .500 team or slightly better. Raise a banner.

A track record like that surely should attract top free agents.
Click to expand...

In can't believe you're making me do this:

Let's look at other teams.

Detroit Tigers have 7 years of .500 or better over the last 20 years.
LA Angels have 13 years of .500 or better over the last 20 years.
The Rays have 6 years (of 16) or .500 or better over the last 20 years.
Baltimore has 5 years of .500 or better over the last 20 years.
White Sox have 12 years of .500 or better over the last 20 years.
Twins have 9 years of .500 or better over the last 20 years.
Oakland has 11 years of .500 or better over the last 20 years.

Anyways, as you can see - Toronto has not sucked the last 20 years. They compare to most teams quite well.
 
Toronto has a .489 win percentage (18th in MLB) and has been in exactly one playoff race in the last 20 years.

When the Jays were good they signed guys like Winfield, Morris, Stewart, Molitor, etc., and since they haven't done anything free agents have been hard to come by. But no the success/lack of success of the organization has absolutely nothing to do with that. And lets just pretend like there wasn't a period in the franchise history where top free agents wanted to and did come here.
 
Yeah but we're not, UFAs aren't looking at Toronto and saying "I'd sign with the Jays if they played in another division"
 
Metalleaf said:
Yeah but we're not, UFAs aren't looking at Toronto and saying "I'd sign with the Jays if they played in another division"
Click to expand...

In general FA's have issues signing with Toronto based on location, weather and taxes.

Buerhle confirmed this.

What did Chipper Jones say about Toronto?
 
No one wants to think anything. it is what it is. They've done absolutely nothing noteworthy in 20 years and have been a sub .500, below average team. Period.

Before that top free agents did sign here. Lots of them.
 
The only Toronto team that inherently has monumental problems attracting or retaining free agents is the Toronto Raptors. Part of it is that the team has been a disaster for most of its history, the other part is that basketball has the greatest percentage of whiny American players that don't want to play in another country, don't want to play second fiddle to hockey, want to be able to come home at night and watch themselves on Sportscenter, etc.

With the large number of overseas, Carribean and South American players in baseball, it's not nearly as big a problem with the Blue Jays. They've just got to demonstrate that you've actually got a chance of winning if you come here, and they'll have no problem attracting players.
 
When the Jays have overpaid in Free Agency (like every other team, that's how the system works), they have landed free agents.

That hasn't been a problem at all.
 
Yeah it has.

In nearly 20 years we have signed Roger Clemens, AJ Burnett, BJ Ryan and Frank Thomas as our "big name" FA signings.

Clemens yes, but he came here after down years (likely pre his steroid days). Thomas was 39 years old. BJ Ryan was a closer and I never considered Burnett to be a top Free Agent - he benefited from his class.

Those are the only "big name" free agent signings we've made since 1996.

Erik Hanson and Joey Hamilton don't count.

It's hard to attract FA's to Toronto.
 
CaptainBolduke said:
They haven't "sucked" for 20 years.

1998 = 88 wins
2003 = 86 wins
2006 = 87 wins
2008 = 86 wins
2010 = 85 wins

You can almost guarantee if they played in another division at least 2 of those years would have been playoff years, maybe more.

They also had:

1999 = 84 wins
2000 = 83 wins
2007 = 83 wins
2011 = 81 wins
Click to expand...

Rain Man loves mediocrity. How surprising.
 
CaptainBolduke said:
Yeah it has.

In nearly 20 years we have signed Roger Clemens, AJ Burnett, BJ Ryan and Frank Thomas as our "big name" FA signings.

Clemens yes, but he came here after down years (likely pre his steroid days). Thomas was 39 years old. BJ Ryan was a closer and I never considered Burnett to be a top Free Agent - he benefited from his class.

Those are the only "big name" free agent signings we've made since 1996.

Erik Hanson and Joey Hamilton don't count.

It's hard to attract FA's to Toronto.
Click to expand...

It's not hard to attract free agents to Toronto. Whenever the team has opened up the purse strings, like any other franchise, they have gotten their targets.

It's a world class city with a vibrant culture and a great reputation internationally in a large market with a decent-sized fanbase. Nothing difficult about attracting players there.

And as 101 repeatedly pointed out, Rain Man, they were getting Hall of Fame talents to sign here when the franchise was successful. No post-season appearances or truly competitive teams in two decades will put the kibbosh on interest.
 
CaptainBolduke said:
Yeah it has.

In nearly 20 years we have signed Roger Clemens, AJ Burnett, BJ Ryan and Frank Thomas as our "big name" FA signings.

Clemens yes, but he came here after down years (likely pre his steroid days). Thomas was 39 years old. BJ Ryan was a closer and I never considered Burnett to be a top Free Agent - he benefited from his class.

Those are the only "big name" free agent signings we've made since 1996.

Erik Hanson and Joey Hamilton don't count.

It's hard to attract FA's to Toronto.
Click to expand...



Which FA's were the Jays the highest bidder on, that they lost out on?

Can't just make baseless claims without backing it up.
 
Blue Jays-Official @BlueJays
Blue Jays will not make a qualifying offer to any free agents.


I believe that's just JJ, Oliver, and Rajai.
 
Current Team & Payroll for 2014:


SP M.Buehrle (35): $18.0
SP R.Dickey (39): $12.0
SP B.Morrow (29): $8.0
SP R.Romero (29): $7.5
SP J.Happ (31): $5.2

SP Total: $50.7

RP C.Janssen (32): $4.0
RP S.Santos (30): $3.75
RP D.McGowan (32): $1.5
RP A.Loup (26): $0.5
RP S.Delabar (30): $0.5
RP B.Cecil (27): Arby
RP E.Rogers (28): Arby

RP Total: ~$12.0

Pitch Total: ~$63.0


SS J.Reyes (31): $16.0
CF C.Rasmus (27): Arby
RF J.Bautista (33): $14.0
DH E.En'cion (31): $9.0
1B A.Lind (30): $7.0
3B B.Lawrie (24): $0.5
LF M.Cabrera (29): $8.0
2B M.Izturis (33): $3.0
C J.Arencibia (28): Arby

UT M.DeRosa (39): $0.75
OF K.Pillar (25): $0.5
IF R.Goins (26): $0.5
C J.Thole (27): $1.25

Bat Total: ~$72.0


Team Total: ~$135.0




Minor League Options (i.e. near league minimum salaries):

SP D.Hutchison (23)
SP K.Drabek (26)
SP S.Nolin (24)
SP M.Stroman (23)
SP T.Redmond (29)
SP D.McGuire (25)

RP N.Wagner (30)
RP L.Perez (29)
RP B.Lincoln (29)
RP J.Stilson (24)
RP J.Carreno (27)
RP M.Storey (28)
RP C.Jenkins (26)
RP T.Weber (29)
RP A.Farina (27)


CF A.Gose (23)
RF M.Sierra (25)
LF K.Wilson (24)
3B A.Burns (23)
SS
2B
1B
C A.Jimenez (24)
 
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