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OT: The Toronto Blue Jays

*shrug* Everyone was building multi-purpose venues in the 80's. Camden Yards started the new trend of urban, cutesy, baseball only stadiums. We just missed out. The Dome gets built in the 90's and we're not having this discussion. Still maintain remodeling and installing a grass field would do wonders.
 
My bitterness stems from being duped into buying a 15 game flex pack for the first time in my life, only to witness a toilet paper worthy product unfold.
 
Howard Eskin @howardeskin
#phillies GM Ruben Amaro deep in serious talks w #bluejays to acquire OF Jose Batista. Can also play 3rd. Phils would deal OF Dom Brown plus
 
Couple quotes from AA saying he's interested in FA's only if the price makes sense, made comments saying does it makes sense if the FA is better than what we have in house....Makes me lean that they are looking moreso at 4's or 5's, but i could be inferring incorrectly.

Also...apparently a team has offered Carlos Ruiz 2/20 and the Jays are interested.
 
Oh man. IM on the fence when it comes to dealing Bautista. On one hand, when healthy, you have a guy that is an elite middle of the order bat. On the other hand, you have a guy that can't stay healthy but still has enough trade value that you might get some really good pieces for him.

the last time we traded our superstar for prospects it didn't work out so well. The prospects we got for Halladay have done f*ck all so far.
 
Dom Brown is a nice start when talking about a potential Batista deal, but it would require much more.

And that " much more" damn well better be used to acquire a David Price or Max Scherzer level talent
 
Leafin' said:
Oh man. IM on the fence when it comes to dealing Bautista. On one hand, when healthy, you have a guy that is an elite middle of the order bat. On the other hand, you have a guy that can't stay healthy but still has enough trade value that you might get some really good pieces for him.

the last time we traded our superstar for prospects it didn't work out so well. The prospects we got for Halladay have done f*ck all so far.
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The team getting the Halladay, Sabathia, Lee, etc wins like 90% of the time.
 
MyNameIsJonas said:
Dom Brown is a nice start when talking about a potential Batista deal, but it would require much more.

And that " much more" damn well better be used to acquire a David Price or Max Scherzer level talent
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Brown is pretty good, but yeah we need a hell of a lot more.
 
Another reason it would make sense is because Brown makes nothing and still isn't eligible for arbitration. So if you can save essentially $13 million to spend on pitching maybe it makes sense. I've heard in multiple places that the budget has been raised to $150 million. So this kind of deal would give them ~$45 mil to play with.

So if you trade Bautista, get Brown and sign Garza or Santana, are you a better team? Its tough to say. Going strictly by WAR it isn't (Batista 6-7 the last 3 years, last year Brown ~2, and Garza and Santana ~3). Now if you can also peddle the other assets into an ace like Price or Scherzer then you are laughing.

That said to have one of the best players in the game for $14 million...I just don't see the sense in trading him.
 
Bigger question concerning Bautista is whether or not he's still the insane middle of the order bat he was 2 years ago, or is he the guy we saw last year? He's not a big guy, and his swing is violent to generate all that bat speed. He's had wrist and back issues (wear and tear from that swing) already, he's declining defensively year over year but has been resistant about coming out of RF to 1B.

If you can sell high on him now, I'd probably do it.
 
MindzEye said:
Bigger question concerning Bautista is whether or not he's still the insane middle of the order bat he was 2 years ago, or is he the guy we saw last year? He's not a big guy, and his swing is violent to generate all that bat speed. He's had wrist and back issues (wear and tear from that swing) already, he's declining defensively year over year but has been resistant about coming out of RF to 1B.

If you can sell high on him now, I'd probably do it.
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Its an interesting point. You are playing with fire though. If Bautista regains his health and doesn't drop off it would suck to trade him when you are trying to compete.
 
leafman101 said:
Another reason it would make sense is because Brown makes nothing and still isn't eligible for arbitration. So if you can save essentially $13 million to spend on pitching maybe it makes sense. I've heard in multiple places that the budget has been raised to $150 million. So this kind of deal would give them ~$45 mil to play with.

So if you trade Bautista, get Brown and sign Garza or Santana, are you a better team? Its tough to say. Going strictly by WAR it isn't (Batista 6-7 the last 3 years, last year Brown ~2, and Garza and Santana ~3). Now if you can also peddle the other assets into an ace like Price or Scherzer then you are laughing.

That said to have one of the best players in the game for $14 million...I just don't see the sense in trading him.
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I was going to respond to your first two paragraphs.....but then you corrected yourself in that last one.
 
leafman101 said:
Its an interesting point. You are playing with fire though. If Bautista regains his health and doesn't drop off it would suck to trade him when you are trying to compete.
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It would....but I don't know how much fire you're playing with when you look at all the factors involved. He's not a big man for a power hitter, he's missed games regularly over the last 2 seasons, with injuries related to his swing. He's on the wrong side of 30, and something that has always carried a lot of weight with me is when we start looking at average career trajectories. The later and steeper the rise in productivity, the sooner and steeper the decline, typically. Bautista had a very steep rise if productivity, very late in his career...based on the research that has been done on career trajectory, his peak won't last long (in fact, it appears to already be behind him) and his decline will be fairly rapid.

If we can get younger, cheaper, but replace Bautista with something similar to what he produced last season, I don't know how you can look at the failure this team was last season and pass that up. If we're willing to be a 150 million dollar payroll club, then our window to win extends significantly if we manage some of our veteran assets properly and seek to be active in the markets looking for out of favour contracts and good bargain free agents.
 
MindzEye said:
It would....but I don't know how much fire you're playing with when you look at all the factors involved. He's not a big man for a power hitter, he's missed games regularly over the last 2 seasons, with injuries related to his swing. He's on the wrong side of 30, and something that has always carried a lot of weight with me is when we start looking at average career trajectories. The later and steeper the rise in productivity, the sooner and steeper the decline, typically. Bautista had a very steep rise if productivity, very late in his career...based on the research that has been done on career trajectory, his peak won't last long (in fact, it appears to already be behind him) and his decline will be fairly rapid.

If we can get younger, cheaper, but replace Bautista with something similar to what he produced last season, I don't know how you can look at the failure this team was last season and pass that up. If we're willing to be a 150 million dollar payroll club, then our window to win extends significantly if we manage some of our veteran assets properly and seek to be active in the markets looking for out of favour contracts and good bargain free agents.
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There is definitely validity to your argument. Its just a tough one for me as Bautista is really, really good.

Holding on to him is the easy thing to do. You're right though, that could also bite you in the ass if he has a steep drop off in health and production which isn't completely out there.
 
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