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OT: The Toronto Blue Jays

It’ll be a shame to see him go. Hopefully we can get him back but I expect someone to blow their load. Still not sure if he’s the Cy Young winner or the guy that couldn’t keep his walk rate down.
 
I was expecting Ray to win but thought it might be closer. Good for him. Great story. Could have made some serious money betting on Ray to win the CY. The odds were 30-1 as late as August. Probably 1000-1 pre-season.
 
LeafOfFaith said:
Makes the case for making like 50 of these types of $100 bets every season just for fun. 1000-1, yowza.
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It’s a guess, I don’t know, maybe it wasn’t that crazy. The odds were very low though. Ray led the NL in walks last year even though he spent half the season in the AL.

Wheeler probably should have won the NL Cy Young, but it goes to Corbin Burnes, who I believe played Roger Dorn in the Major League movies.
 
I should have clarified...he didn't lead in skill measures. K% > K's, fuck baseball reference and their measures (no DIPS). So yeah, he led in a couple counting stats and meh quality advanced metrics.

Cole was probably the better pitcher this year. But he's a Yankee, so he can fuck off.
 
MindzEye said:
I should have clarified...he didn't lead in skill measures. K% > K's, fuck baseball reference and their measures (no DIPS). So yeah, he led in a couple counting stats and meh quality advanced metrics.

Cole was probably the better pitcher this year. But he's a Yankee, so he can fuck off.
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I thought Cole was going to win due to Yankee bias. At the very least I thought it would be closer.
 
MindzEye said:
I should have clarified...he didn't lead in skill measures. K% > K's, fuck baseball reference and their measures (no DIPS). So yeah, he led in a couple counting stats and meh quality advanced metrics.

Cole was probably the better pitcher this year. But he's a Yankee, so he can fuck off.
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I don’t know why anyone prefers fangraphs WAR for pitchers to bbreference. I don’t care who had the better FIP, I care who had the better year. Fangraphs might have better predictive value but it doesn’t tell you who had the better results.

And yeah, I guess IP and K are counting stats, but leading the league in IP isn’t the same as leading it in hits. It’s a big deal for a SP to go deeper into games.
 
manny said:
I don’t know why anyone prefers fangraphs WAR for pitchers to bbreference. I don’t care who had the better FIP, I care who had the better year. Fangraphs might have better predictive value but it doesn’t tell you who had the better results.

And yeah, I guess IP and K are counting stats, but leading the league in IP isn’t the same as leading it in hits. It’s a big deal for a SP to go deeper into games.
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Yeah, you have to know which metrics to use. Who do I think will be better next year? Gimme FIP and the like. Who did better this year? Yeah, I can live with rWAR type. Ray got very lucky stranding runners, and most of his HR allowed were solo shots.

I do think it was close between them. Only 10 innings, so not like you're talking about the difference between the top NL arms.
 
manny said:
I don’t know why anyone prefers fangraphs WAR for pitchers to bbreference. I don’t care who had the better FIP, I care who had the better year. Fangraphs might have better predictive value but it doesn’t tell you who had the better results.
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But who had the better year? The guy who K'd more often, BB'd less often but got mediocre or worse defence behind him on batted balls, or the guy who did the opposite?

Isolating pitching performance from defence is important, even without taking it's improved predictive value into account. This is the same idea as the old GAA vs SV% argument from in hockey.
 
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