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OT: The Toronto Blue Jays

If you can trade for Kepler and sign JD Martinez, thats simultaniously a good injection of power in the lineup whilst also being an extremely short term commitment.

I guess Gio Urshela at 3B or something. Still feels pretty limp dick though
 
I found this on another board, from Fangraphs about the Jays minor league system:

System Overview

In last season’s System Overview, we noted the way this system skewed toward high-variance guys, and that largely remains true. The Jays have taken seven-figure shots on multiple high schoolers in each of the last several drafts, and Tiedemann was a junior college pick. All but a few of the prospects with “grades of impact” in the 40+ FV tier and above are volatile, high-variance players.

This system is stocked with meaningful redundancy, with plan As and plan Bs. There are pockets of players who are comparable in many ways layered throughout the org, perhaps as a way of mitigating the risk associated with those high-variance guys. You can see the trends in low-release height guys (Tiedemann, Barriera, Macko, Cooke and Juenger) and pervasive slider-first approaches to pitching (most effectively Brock and Cooke) in this system. Meanwhile, the bones of the position player group include bat-to-ball specialists with little power (Jimenez and Kasevich, among others) and power hitters with iffy defensive homes (Orelvis, Doughty, De Jesus, and Palmegiani).

Including the many players who recently graduated from rookie status (the likes of Davis Schneider, Nathan Lukes, and Otto Lopez), the Blue Jays should be able to stock their bench and reserve role group from within for the foreseeable future. Free agent departures, especially Matt Chapman’s, open up playing time at second and third base. We think Santiago Espinal, Jimenez, Barger and Martinez are more talented than both the OBP-driven Schenider/Cavan Biggio combo currently projected in the RosterResource starting lineup, and the contact/speed duo of Lopez and Ernie Clement. Schneider has already done enough in the big leagues to call him an unfortunate omission from last year’s list, but it looked like the book on him was out late in the season. There are so many possible permutations of this 2B/3B combo on the 40-man that the Jays should be able to backfill a lot of Chapman’s production from within.

Basically, they think the Jays have enough minor league depth to replace Chapman's production at 3rd and have a competent 2nd baseman.

So if you believe Fangraphs, the real holes are LF and DH. Belly and Hoskins might be the solution, plus maybe a high end pitcher so you can trade a lower end for depth.
 
Yep, you’re right.


Glasnow makes my list tho if they can’t be gotten. Tiedemann as a prospect is honestly just as risky as Glasnow’s health….but if he’s healthy there’s few his equal.

In fact I may prefer him to Cease, but Burnes I prioritize for sure.
yeah, was just gonna say for me it's Burnes > Glasnow >>> Cease
 
I found this on another board, from Fangraphs about the Jays minor league system:



Basically, they think the Jays have enough minor league depth to replace Chapman's production at 3rd and have a competent 2nd baseman.

So if you believe Fangraphs, the real holes are LF and DH. Belly and Hoskins might be the solution, plus maybe a high end pitcher so you can trade a lower end for depth.
My only problem with the internal options is that none of the guys for 3b are like good choices, they're basically all plan B or plan C choices. You have like 8 guys for 2 positions, but they'll probably combine for like 2.5 WAR total, and you risk continually running through until you find the "right" fit.

If you get a solid LF and DH options, you can live with the mess at 2b and 3b. So yeah, if you get like a Bellinger and then any of the reasonable DH options out there, I can live without worrying about 3b. Or maybe you do like Justin Turner as DH and occasional 3B, and if someone in the Espinal/Clement/Barger/etc... cohort steals 3B, great. If not, they can handle enough to only need some games from Turner there.
 
My only problem with the internal options is that none of the guys for 3b are like good choices, they're basically all plan B or plan C choices. You have like 8 guys for 2 positions, but they'll probably combine for like 2.5 WAR total, and you risk continually running through until you find the "right" fit.

If you get a solid LF and DH options, you can live with the mess at 2b and 3b. So yeah, if you get like a Bellinger and then any of the reasonable DH options out there, I can live without worrying about 3b. Or maybe you do like Justin Turner as DH and occasional 3B, and if someone in the Espinal/Clement/Barger/etc... cohort steals 3B, great. If not, they can handle enough to only need some games from Turner there.
Turner is so much inferior than the other DH options, and thats ignoring the fact he's 39 and probably gets worse. I could give a fuck if he can chip in one start at 3B per week. He's also pretty void of power.
 
Yeah, Chapman is the best bet you've got at getting 3-4 WAR out of 3B. I don't see the point in paying Urshela 10-12 million a year to maybe eke out 2 WAR and suffer the downgrade in 3B defence (which will hurt the pitching staff that we expect to carry us again) instead of just paying the 6/140 or whatever to Chapman.

Shatkins needs to be at the point where they're roster managing like 2024 matters, not 2028. The window is steadily closing, go for it you pussies.
 
Yeah, Chapman is the best bet you've got at getting 3-4 WAR out of 3B. I don't see the point in paying Urshela 10-12 million a year to maybe eke out 2 WAR and suffer the downgrade in 3B defence (which will hurt the pitching staff that we expect to carry us again) instead of just paying the 6/140 or whatever to Chapman.

Shatkins needs to be at the point where they're roster managing like 2024 matters, not 2028. The window is steadily closing, go for it you pussies.
I have Gio coming in at 8-10 personally and his D is pretty good, and i'm only okay with him in a world where they go heavy at LF/DH.
 
Regardless, patching a hole with 8-10 million on a 32 yr old guy as likely to be replacement level as he is 2 WAR instead of spending the extra 15 million on a guy who is almost a lock to give 3.5+ WAR and GG defence for a team that plays on turf and features ground ball reliant arms seems dumb and short sighted to me.
 
Eh...what was the last Bautista contract then?

i really dont think keeping a team legend on a QO on during a non competitive window is the same thing as bringing in the oft injured probably roasted Canadian icon and like 10th best available DH with no bench flexibility during the last true year of going for it is the same thing.

Again, if they truly are only interested in appealing to the uber casual fan ( who knows who votto is and is excited but is unaware that he's done) they surely would just overpay Teo.
 
and with respect, thats very dumb.

These guys have literally never done anything of the sort.
I agree, it would be dumb. I just have a feel, the pressure to put butts in the newly renovated seats and with the negativity surrounding the team, that’s a move they normally wouldn’t make it but they may try
 
Regardless, patching a hole with 8-10 million on a 32 yr old guy as likely to be replacement level as he is 2 WAR instead of spending the extra 15 million on a guy who is almost a lock to give 3.5+ WAR and GG defence for a team that plays on turf and features ground ball reliant arms seems dumb and short sighted to me.
I very much agree, though i remain pretty convinced they aren't going more than 2 years on anyone. I think they want as much payroll off the books when they move on from Bo and Vlad
 
I agree, it would be dumb. I just have a feel, the pressure to put butts in the newly renovated seats and with the negativity surrounding the team, that’s a move they normally wouldn’t make it but they may try
Again who are these butts in the seats that are intrigued enough by Votto but are unaware he's roasted and its a pandering move.

Its stupid.

Like, im on board with hating on Shatkins, but the hate needs to make sense.
 
I very much agree, though i remain pretty convinced they aren't going more than 2 years on anyone. I think they want as much payroll off the books when they move on from Bo and Vlad

Yup. These fucks never manage like this year is important. How do you win this year against teams trying to win this year, when you're trying to manage to limit your 2027 downside risk?
 
Yup. These fucks never manage like this year is important. How do you win this year against teams trying to win this year, when you're trying to manage to limit your 2027 downside risk?
They have a smartest guy in the room vibe.

They think they can compete ( which is not the same as trying to win) by trading for some pending FA ( which wont cost what few top kid they have) and signing some of the older vets.

I say two years, but really if things go tits up this year, i dont think they let Bo and Vlad walk so i suspect at least one of them are dealt next offseason.

IMO barring a legit interest in extending these guys i think we got 1 more year at this, and i expect the most limp dick approach to doing it.

I know Shohei wasnt picking anywhere but LAD, but how could you expect him to pick a team that is unable or unwilling to lock in their stars and when Ohtani says no, plan B appears to be as coward as it gets.
 
Basically, they think the Jays have enough minor league depth to replace Chapman's production at 3rd and have a competent 2nd baseman.

Firm disagree on that. I think they under rate what "Chapman's production" at 3B is. In a year a lot of people consider a down year for him, he was 6th in WAR among 3B in MLB.

Expecting Jiminez (61 OPS+ in AAA last year and hardly beat the cover off of the ball at AA either), Barger (24 with a 92 OPS+ in AAA last year) and Orelvis (Just turned 22, and held his own at AAA last year but is probably still 1-2 years away) to do the job in 2024 is nutty imo. Again, it all comes down to whether or not you're trying to win this year. If you are, you sign Chapman and find a way to work Orelvis in as a 3B/Corner OF/DH utility kid if he pushes his way into the show and then eventually trade Chapman (who is likely to retain value for at least a few more years) if Orelvis shows defensive chops at 3rd (pending....) to push Chapman out.
 
Also, if they really are going with the same payroll as last season and have like 40ish to spend, how fucking stupid is 1/10 for Chad Green?

I remember predicting that shit back in August.

There is no 10-15 million dollar short term veteran too risky for these guys. They're way, way more worried about future risk than current risk. They're trying to make sure that they're not terrible in 2027 rather than being excellent in 2024.
 
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