• Moderators, please send me a PM if you are unable to access mod permissions. Thanks, Habsy.

OT: The Toronto Blue Jays

Leafin' said:

View: https://x.com/KeeganMatheson/status/1758885486465028116?s=20

I think it’s tough to find a number and term that is fair for Danny. He’s legit good. But he misses time every year. I think you have to get a deal done though. Can’t let him walk after trading away your top catching prospect last year.

Unless you believe Kirk is starter quality. He himself will likely have durability issues.

Stupid management. The move was clearly to keep Moreno and move Jansen or Kirk. Morons.
Click to expand...

The time to lock Jansen up was a year or two ago. A good, healthy year in 2024 and he’s going to get huge money in FA, which probably explains his clear indifference to extending now.

But yeah, durability is his only real flaw, and you shouldn’t expect more than 1/2 a season from him. That’s still worth a lot, he’s really excellent when he plays.

Seems like another case where the admin has risk managed their way into paying FA money to fill yet another hole. You need at least two C and after Kirk, there is zero organizational depth at C.
 
How much money do you think a "part time" catcher will garner in FA?

And hasn't Kirk played more over the last couple of years then Jansen?

How much would you pay for a often injured catcher who is going to be 30 next summer? Do you think he is going to be less injury prone as he gets on the wrong side of 30?

Also, if you were another team, what type of prospect would you have traded for a part time catcher that is always injured?

Would a c prospect have been enough to trade Jansen?

Backup catchers are a dime a dozen. Reece Mcguire, a good backup catcher, was traded with another player for a middle reliever. You can get those guys anywhere, anytime.

If you are going into a make or break year, would you trust your staff to a rookie catcher?

Sometimes, ones bias clouds rational thought. Like saying 8 is less then 7.5.
 
Also...it's a make or break year because they've backed themselves into making it a make or break year. Having Vlad, Bo, Manoah, Kirk, Moreno, and whatever else competent drafting and development should have generated, all in it's early prime together shouldn't have us in a make of break position because we've run out of cheap years on Vlad & Bo, while at the same time our 30+ UFA pickups are sucking up the budget space while largely not being worth it.

Completely self generated crisis.
 
So a C prospect makes this team better?

Isn't it better to use up his "cheap" years then let him walk when expensive? I know another team that does that to a tee (cough Hyman cough, cough Bunting cough).

Maybe using one of your surpluse on a better player (then a c prospect) to help fill other areas of need is a better play then I guess using FA dollars sucking up budget on 30+ players?
 
Pwner said:
So a C prospect makes this team better?
Click to expand...

Yes, one of the best catchers in the league makes this team better. Also yes, Moreno would have made this team better last year.

Pwner said:
Maybe using one of your surpluse on a better player (then a c prospect) to help fill other areas of need is a better play then I guess using FA dollars sucking up budget on 30+ players?
Click to expand...

How has that worked out? Had we actually used our surplus on a "better player", it probably wouldn't be an issue today.

Our problem is that we used the wrong surplus to add the wrong better player.
 
It’s no surprise our season pretty much went up in flames last year when Jansen broke his hand. He’s a good player when healthy.

Besides obviously hoping for a miracle run from the team I kinda hope they flop and it leads to major changes in management. They’ve done zero since getting here.
 
I wouldn’t have traded Jansen and doubt he would have returned as much in trade as he is worth to the team. I said at the time I would have kept all 3, or maybe traded Kirk if there was a market for him. The other option would have been to trade Moreno for someone good, rather than just trying to reduce downside risk.

As for what part-time C Jansen will get, if he has another 2-3WAR season where he’s on the DL for a chunk of it… 4/60 or something like that? If he’s healthy, then potentially big, big money.

Point is he would have been cheaper to extend a year or two ago than he would be now or as a FA.
 
Fwiw, selling high on Kirk would have been my choice if the market was there for him. I'm cool with athletes who have...unconventional...fitness levels, but there's a limit to that.
 
MindzEye said:
Fwiw, selling high on Kirk would have been my choice if the market was there for him. I'm cool with athletes who have...unconventional...fitness levels, but there's a limit to that.
Click to expand...

In retrospect, obviously that would have been the right call. But let's say you only get a similar offer for Kirk than you did for Moreno - would you have been comfortable trading Kirk for Varsho? Maybe you get to keep Gurriel in the deal, or add in a depth prospect instead, man, that would have been tough to stomach.

The big part of the decision was trying to figure out how talented Moreno actually was, and not realizing how close he was to actually being a useful player. I think if the team thought he had a chance to be at least a league average player ASAP, then yeah, it's a completely insane decision to trade him away. And it's not like he was out of options or something either - I think the team could have waited until this off-season to make a deal if it really came down to it. If they really didn't get anything they liked, I think you would probably give Kirk more DH time, use the 3 catchers (with Moreno shuttling back and forth from the farm), run Gurriel in LF, and instead of Belt probably bring in another OF instead (like a Duvall type of player). That would have punted the decision to now, and when you see Kirk struggle, Moreno break out, now this off-season you probably pivot and find a trade partner for Jansen before he walks.
 
Leafin' said:
This team needs a huge Varsho turnaround. It’s not over for him yet. But last year was a rough first season with the team.
Click to expand...
Varsho is not a bad player. If he was an under the radar pickup, we’d mostly be pleased. He gets scrutiny because the acquisition cost was such a wild overpay. I’m somewhat hopeful he can bounce back, at least break even offensively, and continue to provide defensive value.

Varsho was a 2nd rounder in 2017 fwiw. He’s the kind of player the system needs to be able to produce.
 
manny said:
Varsho is not a bad player. If he was an under the radar pickup, we’d mostly be pleased. He gets scrutiny because the acquisition cost was such a wild overpay. I’m somewhat hopeful he can bounce back, at least break even offensively, and continue to provide defensive value.

Varsho was a 2nd rounder in 2017 fwiw. He’s the kind of player the system needs to be able to produce.
Click to expand...
Id be much more fine with Varsho if he was providing that stick in the 7-8 hole and doing it in CF. Thats a very good player.

Instead he's 6-7 and providing elite LF defence. Which is not near as good.
 
MindzEye said:
Fwiw, selling high on Kirk would have been my choice if the market was there for him. I'm cool with athletes who have...unconventional...fitness levels, but there's a limit to that.
Click to expand...
Im willing to give the FO the benefit of the doubt that they preferred this too, but any team interested in a C was like, nah, we want Moreno.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top