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OT: The Toronto Blue Jays

axlsalinger said:
Urshela's Fangraphs Defense-Fielding and Positional Adjustment stat the last 7 years:
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What in the fuck are you doing? What the fuck does performance 4-7 years ago matter? Why the fuck are you lumping in positional adjustment to fielding values when we have the fielding values to look at in isolation?

The answer to the first question...I have no fucking clue, it's just stupid. The answer to the 2nd question is obvious though, because IKF plays mostly SS and CF it makes him look good if we pull those same numbers on him. The good news is that we don't need to rely on those, we have the actual defensive metrics at the position to look at, which I've already provided.

axlsalinger said:
I am fine with him as a guy who can play 3B when needed
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Except, he's going to be needed to play 3B more or less every day because we didn't add an actual third baseman to the roster. IKF is your everyday 3B and without the WAR position adjustment he benefits from being solid at SS & CF due to, he's probably going to grade out as replacement level as an everyday 3B this season when all is said and done.
 
MindzEye said:
What in the fuck are you doing? What the fuck does performance 4-7 years ago matter? Why the fuck are you lumping in positional adjustment to fielding values when we have the fielding values to look at in isolation?

The answer to the first question...I have no fucking clue, it's just stupid. The answer to the 2nd question is obvious though, because IKF plays mostly SS and CF it makes him look good if we pull those same numbers on him. The good news is that we don't need to rely on those, we have the actual defensive metrics at the position to look at, which I've already provided.



Except, he's going to be needed to play 3B more or less every day because we didn't add an actual third baseman to the roster. IKF is your everyday 3B and without the WAR position adjustment he benefits from being solid at SS & CF due to, he's probably going to grade out as replacement level as an everyday 3B this season when all is said and done.
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Pretty sure we will see Biggio, Turner, Orelvis and Barger play games at 3B this year, it's not only going to be IKF. And we're not counting a utility infielder's previous skill at the 2 most important defensive positions when assessing the quality of his defensive ability? what the fuck are you even talking about? IKF is a better defender than Urshela and also 4 years younger.

The argument for Urshela is solely based on his salary, which is a lot less because he is barely rosterable at this point. I wish they got IKF a little cheaper, but he is a much better fit.
 
At 3B they are equivalent defensively, at the plate Urshela is a much better hitter, and yes he's much cheaper.

As for the bag of random names you threw out. 2 of them aren't MLB players yet or even that close and Biggio was a brutal 3B when they tried him there. Turner is 39 and has been dreadful defensively for years. That he's even mentioned as a serious option there for any inning at all is hilarious. May as well throw Vladdy into your pile of names while you're at it.

Your problem here is that you think he's here as a utility player. We have an everyday shorty and 2 CF's but we have a gaping hole at 3B. The math isn't hard to figure out.
 
Urshela had a couple of good years there, but he's 32 years old and coming off a 92 wRC+. I mean IKF had a 91 and an 86 in the last few years, it's not exactly something I would call "much better". Of course Urshela could rebound, but I think it's more likely he's out of the league in a year or two.

And my bag of random names includes 2 of our top prospects who a lot of analysts expect to see in the majors this year. I don't know why anyone would consider that to be far-fetched.
 
mbow30 said:
So basically two guys who are around the same age, can both play 3b and both are pretty much shit. Except one got 1.5m and the other got 10x more. Ok.
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Yeah, head to head obviously you take IKF. Even at like 2x or 3x his salary. 1x4.5 for IKF? Yeah, ok sure that's probably fair vs what Ursh signed for.

But yeah, 5x the salary and an extra year to boot is ugly.
 
Yeah, I'm not even pumping Urshela as a good option. But for 1.5 millie he's a decent bet to give you 2 war as a starting 3B.

There's no chance IKF does the same for 6 million more per season and the versatility is a big meh. We have options at every other position he plays.
 
UWHabs said:
Yeah, head to head obviously you take IKF. Even at like 2x or 3x his salary. 1x4.5 for IKF? Yeah, ok sure that's probably fair vs what Ursh signed for.

But yeah, 5x the salary and an extra year to boot is ugly.
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Eh, he's only worth more because he plays additional positions. Kind of doesn't matter if you have multiple options at both position and need him to play every day at third. At third, Urshela is the better option, period.
 
32, coming off of an injury that cut his season in half. Still managed to be more valuable than IKF was last year. The contract doesnt change that he's a better option at 3B than IKF and makes it an even bigger no brainer
 
axlsalinger said:
Pretty sure we will see Biggio, Turner, Orelvis and Barger play games at 3B this year, it's not only going to be IKF. And we're not counting a utility infielder's previous skill at the 2 most important defensive positions when assessing the quality of his defensive ability? what the fuck are you even talking about? IKF is a better defender than Urshela and also 4 years younger.

The argument for Urshela is solely based on his salary, which is a lot less because he is barely rosterable at this point. I wish they got IKF attle cheaper, but he is a much better fit.
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Justin Turner started 5 games at 3B last year behind the worst defensive 3B in the game. He's not an option.

Biggio does that thing where he plays well for a month and confuses some simpletons he's better than he is. He doesn't have the defensive chops for 3B.

The kids your mentioned are neither ready, or in some cases any good.

If IKF was brought in on an Urshela level deal, no one here would be as upset, as it might have freed up cash to get JDM or a bat better than Turner or a better OF option than KK, instead they jumped the market on a very dogshit replacement level talent.
 
MyNameIsJonas said:
Ive seen some cases of being a contrarian to the point of needing to be locked into an asylum before....but Axl this is something else.
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i'm not the one crying every day about signing a utility infielder, that is my point. An overpay sure, but this is a ludicrous overreaction.
 
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