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OT: The Toronto Blue Jays

GEEMAN said:
The Jays are in a group of 6-8 behind the obvious drunk spenders that have the means to put together a competitive roster

The other 20 are fucked and have to be elite at drafting , development and asset management like the Rays and others
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The Jays choose to be in the latter group.

Mostly because of the failed leadership of Atkins and Shapiro.
 
By some reports Rogers authorized Shatkins to go over their final bid for Soto. Not that i think that changes anything, but the fact these tone deaf motherfuckers think they can simultaniously attract generational FA here and still stick to their internal risk o meter valuation ( which is apparantly 700, but not 760, or 800, which in and of itself is maddening) is absolute batshit.

Absolutely no one should have any faith that these fuckers get Vlad signed. Now, there is at least a mild, mild hope that bumblefuck Eddie is going to get furious here, and fires these guys and bring in someone to clean up this shit, but its mild.

As for the rest of the offseason, im going to caution people.

You have one camp of reporters claiming the Jays are desperate, going to do something stupid and now linking us to a Burnes overpay.

You have the mushmouth GM talking about being disciplined around his own superstars contract and talking about special budget rules, and these guys have no problem being used as leverage to upcharge the rest of the league and appear to be involved with the big boys.

Im not holding my breath for Burnes/Fried or anyone else. I suspect NYY/BOS and others jilted by Soto, are much more motivated.

My best guess is these guys wait out the first wave and get a handful of the second and third tier guys on 1-2 year deals that have upside or something. The sad thing is, this worked for them once, with Semien and Ray, so they probably think they are smart enough to do it again.

Assholes
 
Ill stop eventually but how can you expect to be taken seriously when you claim to be chasing down generational talents in FA then in the same breath say every dollar matters as to a reason why you cut bait with a 7.5M homegrown RP.

Now, if the real reason is they thought his arm was cooked, so be it, that tracks, but they also cut Genesis Cabrera and his 2M, who while he isnt great, was one of the less embarrassing options in a bullpen that might need 5 fucking guys.
 
thehabhater said:
Baseball has two camps, the one percenters and everyone else.

The Jays are in the second group. .
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Yeah, and I mean, there's nothing necessarily "wrong" with being in that second camp. The Yankees and Dodgers are in tiers of their own, and the Mets have an owner who just doesn't give a rats' ass how much things cost.

The Jays problem right now is they just don't have a clear direction on where to go. They end up giving big deals to middle of the road players as if they are one of those top teams, but then once they do one or two of those deals, basically shut up and don't have anything more to spend. They're scared to push in (ie. back in 2015/2016 when they were legit like one move away from truly being at the top), but at the same time, they just end up middling about.

They're a rich team that is poor, and a poor team that is rich. But it just leads to these weird inefficiencies, and they just can't get over the hurdle. Now, a big factor obviously is that a few of the guys they had tagged as big future pieces in Kirk and Manoah have just lost it and become basically replacement level guys the last couple years. And someone who was great 2 years ago in Bichette stunk last year.
 
thehabhater said:
The Jays choose to be in the latter group.

Mostly because of the failed leadership of Atkins and Shapiro.
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Jays cant compete with the few powerhouses if its a bidding war every year

Mets and Dodgers have absolute bottomless wallets and each can nab a Soto and Shoei together without issue

Dodgers have more deferred money than every payroll in this league

Soto is making 125 mil alone this year , Jays cant match that shit

No excuse they cant put a decent roster on the field but not based on outbidding those teams
 
Hey Folks, why are you all so down?

Don't worry, I have it on good authority that in this era of MLB it is super easy, barely inconvenience to make the playoffs.

So they will probably make the playoffs and then who knows. In the last couple of years, the last teams to make the playoffs have made some big pushes in the playoffs.

All hope is not lost. Because it is easy to make the playoffs.
 
UWHabs said:
Yeah, and I mean, there's nothing necessarily "wrong" with being in that second camp. The Yankees and Dodgers are in tiers of their own, and the Mets have an owner who just doesn't give a rats' ass how much things cost.

The Jays problem right now is they just don't have a clear direction on where to go. They end up giving big deals to middle of the road players as if they are one of those top teams, but then once they do one or two of those deals, basically shut up and don't have anything more to spend. They're scared to push in (ie. back in 2015/2016 when they were legit like one move away from truly being at the top), but at the same time, they just end up middling about.

They're a rich team that is poor, and a poor team that is rich. But it just leads to these weird inefficiencies, and they just can't get over the hurdle. Now, a big factor obviously is that a few of the guys they had tagged as big future pieces in Kirk and Manoah have just lost it and become basically replacement level guys the last couple years. And someone who was great 2 years ago in Bichette stunk last year.
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The Jays problem over many years is they have not developed a good enough cheap base to justify spending on the add ons to keep you competitive for years .

They spent on good UFA pitching but are missing the bats and Bo/Vlad are junk when it matters

You are bang on once they dropped their money loads they cant do much else .

Phillies and others ... develop their own and have some financial flexibility to add

Yanks and Dodgers do the same but can blow their brains out financially to cover up their mistakes

Problem now is middle of the road players are 10-20 mil in UFA so you need your Turners , IFK , Bassit types to be on your roster on the cheap
and giving you above contract production .
 
i will say that Burnes would be an excellent and un-cheap signing so if the rumours there turn out to be right that's a pretty good offseason all by itself.

I'm actually pretty bullish on the hitting being much better than last year even with no additions tbh.
 
Agree with that, except that Burnes and Fried are really the only 2 top FA starters on the market, with 6 or 7 teams circling, so they will definitely not come cheap.
 
I have Fried just a tick behind Burnes but yeah both would be good and both will be overpaid and they should be willing to overpay, especially in years.
 
zeke said:
I have Fried just a tick behind Burnes but yeah both would be good and both will be overpaid and they should be willing to overpay, especially in years.
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For some reason I thought you said he wouldn't be that pricey, but yeah, definitely uncheap.

Some mild concerns about a declining K rate so he's probably not a super high-end ace, but still gonna be a top of the rotation guy and I have him a little ahead of Fried as well.
 
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