OT: WWE/MMA/Boxing Thread
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Montana
Champion
Montana
Champion
my feed dropped quite a few times….but from the 75% I saw, that is the right decision.
Francis is gonna make serious bank with his boxing career tho….world of boxing just got a half dozen incredible PPV fights added to their future.
GGpX
Well-known member
Yeah, I wasn't scoring the fight, but 7 rounds to 3 for Fury seemed about right to me.
This was probably the worst possible outcome for PFL. I don't know how they'll be able to get him to do an MMA fight when there's Wilder out there.
GGpX
Well-known member
The biggest fuck-up in letting Ngannou go? It's far beyond the whole we'll cut off our nose to spite our face angle.
Dana White, at the core, isn't an MMA guy. He's not a Slap guy. He's not a whatever guy.
He's through and through, a boxing guy. Always has been, always will be. It's why he's been caught multiple times watching a big boxing fight on the monitor while sitting cageside to UFC events.
Dana White's been trying for years, might be even a decade now, to set up Zuffa Boxing. He wanted to get in the boxing business.
Imagine how much further along he would be had found a way to keep Ngannou and let him box? Or even further back than that, when fighters like Junior dos Santos wanted to try their hand in boxing? He had real opportunities to set up his glorious Zuffa Boxing with actual UFC fighters that were chomping at the bit to box!
And now? That dream's gone and it's probably gone forever.
Luke Thomas & Brian Campbell talk for about 20 minutes or so about it:
Dana White, at the core, isn't an MMA guy. He's not a Slap guy. He's not a whatever guy.
He's through and through, a boxing guy. Always has been, always will be. It's why he's been caught multiple times watching a big boxing fight on the monitor while sitting cageside to UFC events.
Dana White's been trying for years, might be even a decade now, to set up Zuffa Boxing. He wanted to get in the boxing business.
Imagine how much further along he would be had found a way to keep Ngannou and let him box? Or even further back than that, when fighters like Junior dos Santos wanted to try their hand in boxing? He had real opportunities to set up his glorious Zuffa Boxing with actual UFC fighters that were chomping at the bit to box!
And now? That dream's gone and it's probably gone forever.
Luke Thomas & Brian Campbell talk for about 20 minutes or so about it:
mbow30
Spudmeister Supreme
I think ngannou is the best heavyweight boxer in the world. To go into the ring against the undefeated heavyweight champ, last 10 strong, never really get into trouble and score a knockdown in your first pro fight is something else.
At the same time, what a sorry state the heavyweight division is. That’s the best there is right there, looking beat up and barely eking out a win against a guy in his first fight.
Hopefully Anderson and Torrez jr are for real.
At the same time, what a sorry state the heavyweight division is. That’s the best there is right there, looking beat up and barely eking out a win against a guy in his first fight.
Hopefully Anderson and Torrez jr are for real.
GGpX
Well-known member
The Ngannou-Fury fight is exactly why Heavyweight boxing and MMA is mostly dead: All of the top-end, superior Heavyweight sized athletes from America are in football or basketball, while a lot of Heavyweight sized athletes in Europe are in kickboxing. It's frankly embarassing that so many heavyweights in MMA aren't ripped and have a gut hanging out. They're literally professional gym goers and are paid to be in tip top shape.
If Ngannou was a regular bloke that was born in Baltimore, he'd be a starting pass rusher or middle linebacker in the NFL.
There is almost no real path for a 5'8" 160 pound dude in any of the major sports, regardless of the league. That's why fighting can have such loaded divisions on the lower end, it's got no competition.
If Ngannou was a regular bloke that was born in Baltimore, he'd be a starting pass rusher or middle linebacker in the NFL.
There is almost no real path for a 5'8" 160 pound dude in any of the major sports, regardless of the league. That's why fighting can have such loaded divisions on the lower end, it's got no competition.
If boxing and mma want to really get the light heavyweight and heavyweight divisions going - they should be focussing on what college football and basketball do. Get them a free ride at college as an athlete. Even if they don’t make it pro, they get that high quality education option that they wouldn’t have had the opportunity to get without the sport. And best case they make shit tons of $$ if they are good at boxing etc like with football
GGpX
Well-known member
Bellator started doing something along those lines with NCAA wrestlers. They signed a few of 'em, most notably Aaron Pico, while they were still in college to deals that allowed them to continue their college wrestling careers and when they wrapped up & went into MMA, they'd start in Bellator. Although he's still wrestling, another name to keep an eye on is Kyle Snyder, should he ever choose to go the MMA route.
The WWE also started doing that where they pulled some football players from college to start training as wreslters. The most notable name was Gable Steveson, the 2020 Olympic heavyweight champion in wrestling. He won gold at 20 years old. He had interest from both MMA & WWE and he ultimately chose the WWE.
With the NIL for college athletes, I'm not sure they have much of an incentive to abandon football for MMA. Maybe basketball players might, but I don't know (or frankly care) much about NCAA basketball.
GGpX
Well-known member
Even if they do, you won't see the effects for probably 20 years, if you see any results at all.
The UFC's been investing heavily in Mexico & Latin America for over a decade and we're only now starting to see some of that investment trickle into the sport. That's with Latin America having some infrastructure, having a close proximity to two of the three juggernaut countries of the world (USA & Brazil) allowing some of the fighters to travel relatively close distances to get more advanced training, etc.
Africa, on the other hand, is a completely barren wasteland. The UFC can put a shit load of money into it and get programs, trainers, etc into the continent, but it's going to take a very, very long time to see any real impact. Besides Dricus du Plessis, virtually every single one of the other well known African fighters in the UFC wasn't trained there. Usman was trained in America, Adesanya in Australia / New Zealand / China, Ngannou France / America.
The UFC's also invested heavily in China in hopes of getting some Chinese fighters there, and while we've seen some in the UFC, it's going to be a long time before we see real results.
Montana
Champion
As a lifelong diehard boxing fan, I’m kinda embarrassed by all the bleating over Ngannou doing so well “in his debut” against the champ. And how it’s an embarrassment to boxing, blah blah blah. The broadcast crew’s analysis post fight was like a funeral, as if this was the biggest abomination of all time that this occurred.
…I feel like that’s letting all the work be done by “in his debut!” and ignoring a shitload of context that makes this more understandable as Ngannou being the outlier it is.
Ngannou went from ostensibly 0 training to starting in earnest at 26, making his MMA a few months later….and within two years is in the UFC.
Within 5 years of beginning training he’s fighting for the UFC HW crown…all along the way primarily winning via his boxing, heavy hands & ability to utilize strength & minimal wrestling to prevent takedowns. At this point he’s also made enough money to be training regularly with top boxing trainers all day every day, for the most part (when not working on his wrestling.)
He also then spent a year and a half with the best boxing trainers focused solely on making his debut in boxing….and being in the HW division his skills largely translated, and his overall strength ended up being a bigger factor than expected neutralizing Fury’s ability to clinch & hold and lean on him…
It’s also worth noting that over the last couple decades boxing became less about skill & more about height & size….but unlike when Fury got to walk into the ring ~40 pounds heavier than Wilder, and could lean on him and wear him down as the fight progressed. Ngannou came in weighing roughly the same amount (273, to Fury 277) & while being noticeably stronger.
Fury bills at 6’9..but imo is more likely 6’6 (looked even with Wladimir)
Ngannou seems a legit 6’4 imo.
Deontay Wilder was 231-38 (6’5 imo)
Derek Chisora was 260lbs (but 6’2)
Dillian Whyte was 253 (6’2)
Wladimir Klitschko was 245 (6’6)
So when you factor in 7 of his biggest fights we’re against either much shorter or much lighter guys that he could own with length & his jab, or lean on with his weight advantage in the clinch to wear down and take into deep waters…..some of his biggest advantages historically were quickly wiped out versus Francis.
….and that’s not to dismiss Fury having a off night & a poor showing in a fight he clearly took lightly, but my take away from it was just how good Ngannou’s boxing translated. There’s plenty of top 10 guys you’d instantly favor him over….which is as much a testament to him, than it is a stain on boxing.
As a boxing fan I came away from this exhilarated to have this injection of talent & hype into the HW division. As well as potentially paving the way for more big name MMA HW draws to make the transition.
Boxing unfortunately often rode the wave of popularity its HW division had at any given time, despite all the best boxing always happening at lower weight classes….so if Ngannou & co. can give the HW division a big boost in eyeballs, it only benefits the sport as a whole.
(and I say all the above as someone who fully expected Fury to demolish Francis, rooted for Fury on behalf of boxing….I couldn’t have had this one pegged more wrong…… but I still came away more excited about what Francis brought to the table & to the sport…..than embarrassed about how close it was.
)
…I feel like that’s letting all the work be done by “in his debut!” and ignoring a shitload of context that makes this more understandable as Ngannou being the outlier it is.
Ngannou went from ostensibly 0 training to starting in earnest at 26, making his MMA a few months later….and within two years is in the UFC.
Within 5 years of beginning training he’s fighting for the UFC HW crown…all along the way primarily winning via his boxing, heavy hands & ability to utilize strength & minimal wrestling to prevent takedowns. At this point he’s also made enough money to be training regularly with top boxing trainers all day every day, for the most part (when not working on his wrestling.)
He also then spent a year and a half with the best boxing trainers focused solely on making his debut in boxing….and being in the HW division his skills largely translated, and his overall strength ended up being a bigger factor than expected neutralizing Fury’s ability to clinch & hold and lean on him…
It’s also worth noting that over the last couple decades boxing became less about skill & more about height & size….but unlike when Fury got to walk into the ring ~40 pounds heavier than Wilder, and could lean on him and wear him down as the fight progressed. Ngannou came in weighing roughly the same amount (273, to Fury 277) & while being noticeably stronger.
Fury bills at 6’9..but imo is more likely 6’6 (looked even with Wladimir)
Ngannou seems a legit 6’4 imo.
Deontay Wilder was 231-38 (6’5 imo)
Derek Chisora was 260lbs (but 6’2)
Dillian Whyte was 253 (6’2)
Wladimir Klitschko was 245 (6’6)
So when you factor in 7 of his biggest fights we’re against either much shorter or much lighter guys that he could own with length & his jab, or lean on with his weight advantage in the clinch to wear down and take into deep waters…..some of his biggest advantages historically were quickly wiped out versus Francis.
….and that’s not to dismiss Fury having a off night & a poor showing in a fight he clearly took lightly, but my take away from it was just how good Ngannou’s boxing translated. There’s plenty of top 10 guys you’d instantly favor him over….which is as much a testament to him, than it is a stain on boxing.
As a boxing fan I came away from this exhilarated to have this injection of talent & hype into the HW division. As well as potentially paving the way for more big name MMA HW draws to make the transition.
Boxing unfortunately often rode the wave of popularity its HW division had at any given time, despite all the best boxing always happening at lower weight classes….so if Ngannou & co. can give the HW division a big boost in eyeballs, it only benefits the sport as a whole.
(and I say all the above as someone who fully expected Fury to demolish Francis, rooted for Fury on behalf of boxing….I couldn’t have had this one pegged more wrong…… but I still came away more excited about what Francis brought to the table & to the sport…..than embarrassed about how close it was.
)
Montana
Champion
My hope all that investment ends up just being training future HW boxers who leverage the marketing and star making power of the UFC, into getting real pay checks in boxing.
Dana white will be fired, retired or dead by this happening anyway
MindzEye
Wayward Ditch Pig
As a lifelong diehard boxing fan, I’m kinda embarrassed by all the bleating over Ngannou doing so well “in his debut” against the champ. And how it’s an embarrassment to boxing, blah blah blah. The broadcast crew’s analysis post fight was like a funeral, as if this was the biggest abomination of all time that this occurred.
…I feel like that’s letting all the work be done by “in his debut!” and ignoring a shitload of context that makes this more understandable as Ngannou being the outlier it is.
Ngannou went from ostensibly 0 training to starting in earnest at 26, making his MMA a few months later….and within two years is in the UFC.
Within 5 years of beginning training he’s fighting for the UFC HW crown…all along the way primarily winning via his boxing, heavy hands & ability to utilize strength & minimal wrestling to prevent takedowns. At this point he’s also made enough money to be training regularly with top boxing trainers all day every day, for the most part (when not working on his wrestling.)
He also then spent a year and a half with the best boxing trainers focused solely on making his debut in boxing….and being in the HW division his skills largely translated, and his overall strength ended up being a bigger factor than expected neutralizing Fury’s ability to clinch & hold and lean on him…
It’s also worth noting that over the last couple decades boxing became less about skill & more about height & size….but unlike when Fury got to walk into the ring ~40 pounds heavier than Wilder, and could lean on him and wear him down as the fight progressed. Ngannou came in weighing roughly the same amount (273, to Fury 277) & while being noticeably stronger.
Fury bills at 6’9..but imo is more likely 6’6 (looked even with Wladimir)
Ngannou seems a legit 6’4 imo.
Deontay Wilder was 231-38 (6’5 imo)
Derek Chisora was 260lbs (but 6’2)
Dillian Whyte was 253 (6’2)
Wladimir Klitschko was 245 (6’6)
So when you factor in 7 of his biggest fights we’re against either much shorter or much lighter guys that he could own with length & his jab, or lean on with his weight advantage in the clinch to wear down and take into deep waters…..some of his biggest advantages historically were quickly wiped out versus Francis.
….and that’s not to dismiss Fury having a off night & a poor showing in a fight he clearly took lightly, but my take away from it was just how good Ngannou’s boxing translated. There’s plenty of top 10 guys you’d instantly favor him over….which is as much a testament to him, than it is a stain on boxing.
As a boxing fan I came away from this exhilarated to have this injection of talent & hype into the HW division. As well as potentially paving the way for more big name MMA HW draws to make the transition.
Boxing unfortunately often rode the wave of popularity its HW division had at any given time, despite all the best boxing always happening at lower weight classes….so if Ngannou & co. can give the HW division a big boost in eyeballs, it only benefits the sport as a whole.
(and I say all the above as someone who fully expected Fury to demolish Francis, rooted for Fury on behalf of boxing….I couldn’t have had this one pegged more wrong…… but I still came away more excited about what Francis brought to the table & to the sport…..than embarrassed about how close it was.
Something overlooked in Fury-Francis was that it was a style matchup that favored Francis imo. Fury isn't a big puncher and tends to use the clench to dirty box and lean on his opponents until they're exhausted. MMA training is very grapple and clinch heavy, Fury wasn't going to abuse Francis like that.